Monday, 21 February 2011

IWJ and Sargeant: no communication, no trust

Anglesey County Council Leader, Clive McGregor, has released the below statement setting out in considerable detail his side of the story.

Much of it is familiar, but for me the most striking revelation is how little Ieuan Wyn Jones and his WAG coalition partner Carl Sargeant must communicate with or trust each other. According to Clive's document both Ieuan Wyn Jones and Albert Owen sanctioned the new 30 member coalition (comprising of Labour, Plaid, Original Independents, and Menai Group -- and excluding Clive's Llais i Fôn group) which was announced last week. However it was the very formation of this coalition which was the impetus for Carl Sargeant to call for an immediate and emergency audit by the Wales Audit Office.

Is there no communication whatsoever between Ieuan Wyn Jones and Carl Sargeant? It is farcical for the WAG Deputy First Minister to "approve" a coalition and then for the WAG Local Government Minister to immediately veto it. Utter shambles.

Read the whole document below:
Clive McGregor Press Release1

77 comments:

kp said...

Well, I think that finishes it all.

If WAG thinks IoACC can continue after this I suggest Westminster starts investigating WAG in all earnestness.

Rotten, and looking like rotten to the core.

Anonymous said...

Rotten to the core, no going back.

The WAG also needs to be seriously overhauled!

Appalled said...
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Anonymous said...

The days are numbered either they come in and take this Council over, or we will take the law unto our hands, it's your call, we can destroy you IoACC as easily as you have destoyed us, NO confidence in none of them. A total disgrace.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Test

Mochyn Mon Ar Wasgar said...

Couldn't have put it any better myself Clive. These jokers have been making a mockery of the democratic process and taking the people of Ynys Mon along for a ride for years, but let's not forget who keeps re-electing them - oh yes, the people of Ynys Mon! I feel genuinely sorry for C Mc G,I know him personally and can attest to his professionalism and political nous, and also his recollection of the recent history of YM and the previous Borough Council. The days of Ynys Mon as a separate entity are numbered, but I hope the people of the island give this adequate reflection when they get the opportunity to vote in their representatives for the expanded Gwynedd. The Usual Suspects should never again hold public office.

Anonymous said...

The way this lot is carrying on, there will be a state of unrest and civil war here soon, and it will be their fault, and no scheming and tactics from the Anglesey Cake Munchers can stop the public, we pay our taxes for years, a lifetime, and this is what we get, a balding halfwit, a Council overflowing with takers, and the Welsh Assembly scratching it's arse because theya re out of their depth.
Dissolve this Council please, and call in the fraud squad, these people need investigating for impersonating Councillors who care for the community.

Anonymous said...

If you want to make a difference, vote No for ASSEMBLY LAW MAKING POWERS, and get rid of IWJ today.

Prometheuswrites said...

Sadly this is the inevitable consequence of trying to'start over with a clean slate' while ignoring the problems of the past.

As I've said before, priority 1 is to bring order, stability and a clear sense of direction to the council. Priority 2 is to find out what was going wrong in the past and take steps to ensure it didn't happen again.

It wasn't a case of do one or the other, as both needed addressing.

With Labour and Plaid falling out over coming elections for the WAG this squabbling has extended down into local politics too.

Congratulations to Mr McGregor for naming names and letting us know what the score is, but unfortunately at this point in time it now has the ring of the final act in a nautical theatre where the boat slowly slips under the waves.

Anonymous said...

NO WAY should the old lot be left to govern;they should all be despatched. What is everyone waiting for?

Shame on you Albert Owen for supporting them. I always thought that you were at best 'ok' at worst 'abit weak'. You have totally lost any credability and have showed yourself up to be a joke, which will hopefully be on you when the people of Anglesey and particulary your home town of Holyhead despatch with you too. We deserve better.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If you want to make a difference, vote No for ASSEMBLY LAW MAKING POWERS, and get rid of IWJ today.



If you vote NO you are effectively voting to keep things the same as they are now - satisfied with it are you?. Is that what you want?

There's no going back - the Assembly is here to stay like it or lump it and you can either vote to change or vote to stand still, that's basically all the YES or NO is no matter how it's dressed up.

If the NO's carry the day, the then become responsible for the uslelessness of it all. If the YES's carry the day at least there will be some changes and the scope for more changes furher down the line.

Anonymous said...

@14:11 re photon blog

It's been up and down like a (whatever) for weeks now, usually returning a few hours later with no explanation.

I'm at work. Work blocks access to scribd so I can't see the McGregor document (I'm assuming it's not the one from Friday to councillors, that comes close to combining reports of blackmail and libel/slander?).

In an ideal world, it would be nice if these documents could be OCR'd and the words posted here for easy reading, with scribd as the place to keep the document image. Ideally. [I said the same over in Photon land just before it went off air]

"find out what was going wrong in the past and take steps to ensure it didn't happen again."

The original audit/inquiry report posted over at Photon land did a certain amount of that, but lessons appear to have been ignored and people appear to have carried on doing what they'd got used to.

Mochyn Mon Ar Wasgar said...

14:24

Why are you so surprised about the limitations of the Honourable Member for Ynys Cybi? If any of the other parties had fielded a half credible local candidate at the last GE he would have been shown the door

Anonymous said...

14.29: Re Photon Blog:

Normally when blogger goes down it says 'not available'

At the moment it says 'has been removed'

Anonymous said...

The No vote gets my vote, it will send a clear message to the WAG that we can't be taken for granted. Plaid and Labour will fill their trons when they hear the threat of a NO vote from the idiots of Anglesey. Idiots of Anglesey is what we are, we have been treated like idiots for years by them. so the tag sticks. Think about it.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Photon has gone too far this time, and has had his plug pulled.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Paul Williams,

As a dedicated and concerned resident of Anglesey, I wish to request that you find out the following.

When will the audit be taking place.

A contact name for the audit team.

Will the audit team investigate serious complaints that have never been properly investigated by this Council.

Please keep us informed.

Diolch yn fawr

Anonymous said...

@14:46 "has been removed" and @14:48

Maybe so in general, but the Photon's blog has repeatedly recently been saying "has been removed" - I've even posted about it on here in recent days while it was "removed", but right now I can't find that post.

I like a conspiracy as much as the next man, but for now I'm blaming technical incompetence at blogger.

Anonymous said...

I hope so, he did a good blog about the Grant's and Mr Pierce, that was well done, I do hope he hasn't got into bother, some people don't like to get their feathers ruffled too much, they can get nasty when the blogger gets too near to the truth.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

I hope so too.

We still have freedom of speech and of the press and Photon is very very careful about anything that could be thought of as libelous or abusive.

Anonymous said...

Photon's back - but the article about Graigwen and YM Investigations has been removed.

Anonymous said...

Posting 15:10 we don't need Councillors we need the WAG to bring in people from Cardiff to run the show until we have a clear out, then maybe in 50 to 60 years we may be trustworthy again, that's how long it will take. The influences of the past last long in this part of the world.

Anonymous said...

Wonder if Photon has had a chwip din from someone.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

How do we get a referendum to dissolve this Council and get the Welsh Assembly to run the place for us?

Anonymous said...

Anon 15:20

That's half the trouble with this place ...we always think that people from 'away' will do a better job than we can. In the case of Anglesey Councillors I might have agreed with you but Mr Bowles' & WAG the dog's efforts swing the argument back the other way about as far as is possible.

Young Island blood on the Council taking all of us forward is what's needed ...stuff WAG and all of its petty politick-tocking, make Ieuan earn his money. Let's TELL THEM what we want, not just wait to get given. Stuff Westminster too - tell Uncle Albert, man of the (Rich) people Dave and his turncoat puppet Nick what we want and when we want it!

This is our Island not a football for them to kick around when they're bored.

Mochyn Mon Ar Wasgar said...

It seems that we're living in revolutionary times!? As I sit out here in the Gulf regimes all around are being called to account by their people. Demands for greater democracy and transparency have cost many brave people their lives. Whilst Ynys Mon is the proverbial million miles from that there are interesting parallels drawn with the increasing power of the net and bloggers. Regardless of your political loyalties Druid, you may well have started something just as seismic in local terms and it's heartening to see that there are people in Ynys Mon ready to pick up the cudgels, let's hope this translates into concrete action to rid the Island of this political blight that has marred the landscape for far too long!

Anonymous said...

I apologise for my scepticism earlier; it seems this isn't a a technical issue at blogger, and the other downtimes probably weren't either.

For those who wonder what was in today's now-vanished post, you might want to save a copy of the "How IoACC hasn't changed" thread while it's still there. It will lead you in the right direction, purely based on verifiable factual on-the-record public interest stuff such as McGregor's declaration of interests and the Graigwen controversy.

"Young Island blood on the Council taking all of us forward is what's needed"

Not sure young is necessarily a requirement, but "different" probably is. In fact a few senior folks with some credibility and no need to worry about a local career might be a good fit, in addition to the young blood.

Anonymous said...

Mr McGregor, I think you started off well but you turned your back on those that were helping you clean up the Council`s image.

Who did you think was going to sign up to the Terms of Engagement - only those who did not want to be investigated at all cost and a couple that dont know whats been going on for over a decade.

You should have stuck to you`r guns and told Bowles where to go. You should have tackled the problems head on.

You becoming the Leader should have been the best thing that has ever happened to this Council but sadly Bowles wanted to brush the past under the carpet.

Prometheuswrites said...

When McGregor first came in he appeared to be tackling some of the inherent problems within the council.

Unfortunately (as is the nature of these things) he has become embroiled in the infighting and made a miscalculation with the contentious items in the original 'terms of engagement'

There's also a difference between running matters in the police force which follows a hierarchial command structure and the democratic laise-faire stucture of local government.

The latest letter reproduced here on the Druid has a Blairite flavour of 'if you're not with me then you're against me', even if it is well intentioned.

We need someone with the machiavelian skills of Peter Mandleson and the integrity of Tony Benn to sort out our problems.

Likewise David Bowles, who is, I am sure, a competent manager and able trouble-shooter in normal circumstances - but circumstances up here are far from 'normal', with the words 'vested interests' being used in several correspondences, suggesting that more than political interests may be involved.

I don't want to see us amalgamated with Gwynedd (with the 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' budget deficits - £10M vs. £20-30M), nor do I have any great faith that WAG commissioners would be able to grasp the smoke and mirrors issues involved with running this council.

I like to think of myself as a problem solver, (once the problems have been identified), but solutions to the current predicament escape me.

Prometheuswrites said...

Interesting commentary on the referendum here on Betsan Powys' blog:

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/betsanpowys/2011/02/the_things_they_say.html

Mochyn Mon Ar Wasgar said...

Prometheuswrites correctly identifies some of the glaring differences in managing a police service and running a local authority but some principles are common to both, and extremely important:-
1. Personal intergrity
2. Clearly defined priorities and policies.
3. Accountability and transparency in decision making.
4. Collective responsibility when things go wrong.
5.Supportive and developmental human resources practices.

These are just for starters and in no great order, I could go on but would probably be moderated out. How many of these principles can Ynys Mon lay claim to have followed scrupulously? Therein lies the problem and a good starting point for any future re-building exercise, albeit as Ynys Mon or Greater Gwynedd.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

15:43

Were all from Anglesey, that's why we should get together and have amassive protest in Llangefni.. a show of strengh to give the people a bit of hope, and that they are not alone.

Anonymous said...

Now then , Don't lets get carried away.

This self serving statement is just that, and nothing else

Clive McGregor stitched up all those Councillors who'd supported him in his endeavors to clean the Council up, by going Bowles's brush it under the carpet gang.

Now Bowles has stitched him up and he just doesn't like it.

It called falling on your own sword, but there is much worse to come yet. Isn't there Mr Bowles?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Photon's back - but the article about Graigwen and YM Investigations has been removed.


I wonder what the odds are of some 'anon' somewhere having saved a copy, then logging-on at a clean portal such as the internet cafe in Holyhead and posting it oin here, caergybi.com and all the other well read blogs on the island.

What's the odds Photon?

Anonymous said...

For those of us that know exactly what Clive McGregor has been up to, he should resign tonight and save himself the overwhelming embarrassment that's coming his and Mr David Bowles's way.

The Red Flag said...

The problem is that in order to save Anglesey's status as a council in it's own right you wuill have to bar everyoine who is or has ever been a councillor from ever standing ever again

If you think I'm joking, who do you think will win Chorlton's ward in an election? Chorlton will.

And it's the same right across the island. Dissolve the council and hold an election and most of the people that are councillors now will be councillors after as well.

It's unfortunate - in that some good councillors will have to be sacrificed - but there is no other alternative. (well there is but the police get twitchy about assault rifles)

Anonymous said...

For those of us that know exactly what Clive McGregor has been up to, he should resign tonight and save himself the overwhelming embarrassment that's coming his and Mr David Bowles's way.

If it isn't provable in a Court then like most politicians it's water off a duck's back. Merely unsubstantiated gossip unless people are willing to file a formal complaint with the Police and stand testimony in the full public glare.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

This is typical of Clive McGregor. Accuses Councillors but does not say why or what for.

The sooner he is gone altogether the Better.

Anonymous said...

"posting it oin here, caergybi.com and all the other well read blogs on the island."

From what I saw in the original and "clarified" and then "apology" versions, there was nothing much on there that isn't already on the public record, and much of it is also (for now) still at

http://photonicanglesey.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-ioacc-hasnt-changed.html

Please save yourself a copy RIGHT NOW, just in case. And a copy of this thread too.

You don't have to be a genius to work out the missing bits, and to work out what the quite simple and apparently fair but unwelcome and now vanished questions might have been.

What is less clear is why a simple statement from the person involved would not have clarified the questions.

What happened this morning when the posts vanished has merely raised the level of interest (not to say suspicion) - the so-called "Streisand effect".

On the other hand I may be misremembering, and as I mentioned elsewhere, anything posted to scribd during working hours is invisible to lots of folk including me.

"Complain to the Police, about an Ex Copper. Your having a joke aren't you?"

Quite. Not the brightest suggestion, but what alternatives are there?

How are Rebecca getting on, six months and various revelations later?
http://druidsrevenge.blogspot.com/2010/08/rebecca-to-investigate-anglesey-county.html

Anonymous said...

An Anglesey worker stunned Albert Owen and Ieuan Wyn Jones today when he was employed by a local firm to do something in return for a wage.

Said a spokesman for the Welsh Assembly " This is outrageous. We have created over one million jobs for foreign workers and now this firm has irresponsibly hired a man who is quite obviously Welsh"

He continued " Had the firm in question bothered to investigate the labour market, they would have found a large number of suitably qualified Poles, Ukranians, Somalis, Nigerians, Kyrgyzs,South Africans,Apache Indians, or indeed Eskimoes who could have easily done the job.

" This is a slap in the face for Carwyn Jones and Ieuan Wyn Jones's policy of guaranteeing unemployment for all Welsh workers.

A spokesman for Albert Owen said " Our policy of guaranteeing full unemployment for all Welsh Workers has hit a small hurdle, we shall soon get over it, and carry on being the unemployed capital of Europe"

Anonymous said...

the auditors came in as a result of the exec and officers falling out,Mc gregor was part of that exec!DEREK JONES WAS HOUNDED OUT OF OFFICE by the same.graigwen was blown up out of all proportion and investigated by,yes same again.letter refering to malfisens in public office and claiming expenses for a trip that never was,yes Mc gregor again plus many more.who s been a busy boy then and carries no baggage!go now

Prometheuswrites said...

Re: Red Flag @ 19:16

A perplexing situation. Not all councillors are 'obstructives' and some have been active in trying to sort problems out. I don't know what the constitutional legal position is regarding barring people from standing for public office, but I feel uncomfortable with the idea that someone (presumably the WAG or Westminster) could dictate who could stand for election and who couldn't. (Isn't this what democratic unrest in North Africa is about?).
In elections the imcumbent will normally get back in, unless there is some particular issue involving the individual or they belong to a political party, (which many of our councillors don't), that has fallen into disfavour.

Governments and Local Authorities tend to change politically when the swing constituencies are dissatisfied with the party in power, as the core vote in solid constituencies will hold up, unless there's something that's particular to sitting member, (eg Hamilton & Bell).

The councils efforts to encourage new and younger councillors is first step, but the key issue has to be engagement and the belief that voting will make a difference.
(many of the people I talk to either just aren't interested or don't think anything would change).
Educating people about how local democracy works would help, because unless you understand this then you don't know what you are voting for and are likely to vote on the basis of the personality or local regard/disregard of the particular candidate, rather than their stance on particular issues that effect you.

That is why Paul's Peoples Manifesto is important and why it's also important for each canditate to have a manifesto to stand on, even those affiliated to a national party, as local conditions can be at odds with and make it impractical for the local party member to follow the party line. (Like Albert Owen, who despite Labours non-nuclear stance has stood up for Wylfa B on the grounds of our appalling unemployment - I'm not sure Albert would be so pro-nuclear if we had full employment on Anglesey - or any other candidates for that matter.)

However education both costs money and takes time, luxuries we can't afford right now.

Maybe commissioners from WAG could be a stop-gap solution, but I'm still uncomfortable about that for the same reasons as above.

It's a bit of, (well a lot of), a Gordian Knot and I don't see an Alexander approaching, (nor would I approve of that particular solution).

The only certainty is that something has to change, as the current edifice is teetering.

Puck said...

Perhaps someone will take a game of Jenga along to the next council meeting?

With the winner to become new leader.

Anonymous said...

Fact - McG has asked GWR, JC, HT and BO to resign on HTV today.

The place might stand half a chance if they followed his advice and did the honorable thing.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps it's not society that's broken but government.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me that Iolo has something when he calls the Druid to investigate two of his fellow Tories - both named in McGregor's letter.

Anonymous said...

Clive McGregor f..ks up and he want's others to resign! Bloody typical not just of McGregor but Bowles.

"Corporate Governance inspection had failed to identify those who were causing the trouble within the Council and the Group leaders decided that such a course of action was now necessary. This is why Councillor Durkin and Councillor Schofield were named in the Terms of Engagement"

Such a statement from the Director of Legal Services/Monitoring Officer dated 1st December 2010 is enough to frighten the best of men.

The Corporate Governance Inspection sent in by the Welsh Audit Office couldn't identify those who were causing the trouble. So Clive McGregor and the other group leaders created two scapegoats to cover up their own bad behavior.

I can hear the banks of lawyers sharpening their pencils for here.

Anonymous said...

Now then Mr McGregor is this true.

You've had plenty to say in you statement of today, So what have you got to say about this 22:32 revelation?
I say it sounds like a criminal conspiracy to cover up the true identity of the real trouble makers, However you have named them your self today, so where does leave Cllr Durkin and Schofield.

Are you going to issue a public apology before you resign from office or what?
The mind boggles.

Anonymous said...

22:32 - why? Neither of them have been reported to the ombudsman. If there is evidence of wrongdoing then clive should present it to the ombudsman. Otherwise his assertions are hollow.

the outsider said...

As I see it there have not been elections since the full extent of the Council's governance and financial problems came to light. So there is only one thing to do, the islanders have to petition for a Council election now and demand that candidates supply a detailed personal manifesto. If enough new people are elected there will be a mandate for a focused approach to resolving the budget and delivering transparent and fair local government. Candidates should tell voters prior to the election if they support an amalgamation with another Council or not. The difficulty will be encouraging new people to come forward. I suspect a good few of the existing Councillors will be more than happy to stand aside. If the newly elected Council does not produce an agreed budget within 2 months of the election then WAG together with the Secretary of State would have the moral as well as legal authority to do as they see fit. Investigations into all past failures and allegations should be dealt with in due course and by due process but they are not the first priority for a new Council.

Manic said...

As we are told that this is the end

A design ..............for the Council

Insider said...

News from the Kremlin this morning.
Clive McGregor to resign today.?

We will see.

Anonymous said...

@PrometheusWrites
"We need someone with the machiavelian skills of Peter Mandleson and the integrity of Tony Benn to sort out our problems."

I'm glad you got that the proper way round :)

@Insider
"News from the Kremlin this morning. Clive McGregor to resign today.?"

We'll see. Wasn't some other gossipmerchant promising last week that Bowles would retire on Monday? Did it happen?

Cllr Barrie Durkin. said...

Never mind resigning and taking the easy way out.

Cllr McGregor wrote to Derrick Jones the previous MD on 22nd December 2008, accusing some of his Staff of "Malfeasance in public office" and that the Police should be brought in. Let there be no mistake, This is what sparked off the Corporate Governance Inspection by the Welsh Audit office.

Since then, Clive McGregor has blamed everyone else for his bad behavior even naming innocent Councillors to create a smoke screen causing havoc right across the council.

The Letter had nothing to do with any other Councillor, he did it on his own behalf. in his name.
I therefore ask this Question:

Does Cllr McGregor still stand by that very grave allegation or not?
A public answer of just Yes or No will do.

Cllr Barrie Durkin. said...

Never mind resigning and taking the easy way out.

Cllr McGregor wrote to Derrick Jones the previous MD on 22nd December 2008, accusing some of his Staff of "Malfeasance in public office" and that the Police should be brought in. Let there be no mistake, This is what sparked off the Corporate Governance Inspection by the Welsh Audit office.

Since then, Clive McGregor has blamed everyone else for his bad behavior even naming innocent Councillors to create a smoke screen causing havoc right across the council.

The Letter had nothing to do with any other Councillor, he did it on his own behalf. in his name.
I therefore ask this Question:

Does Cllr McGregor still stand by that very grave allegation or not?
A public answer of just Yes or No will do.

;) said...

Re the Promethean Knot

How about some conditions like no-one to be a portfolio holder who owns or belongs to a business that has a contract with the council?

Or automatic deselection for anyone who fails to comply with the manifesto they stood by before the election?

It would go long way to reduce accusations of dodgy practices.

Anonymous said...

Don't Resign Clive.
Stand like a man, stick to your malicious convictions and face the music, thats if you dare.

Anonymous said...

"How about some conditions like no-one to be a portfolio holder who owns or belongs to a business that has a contract with the council?"

Bit harsh. If they want to be a portfolio holder and do business with the council maybe it should be OK **AS LONG AS ****ALL**** THE DETAILS ARE PUBLISHED** within 28 days of the contract, transaction, whatever.

Yesterdays shenanigans over at the Photon apparently involved a wish for such details to be published in the apparent absence of any requirement to do so?

Anonymous said...

Well done Clive.Sorry to see you go.You've done some good work here on Anglesey but it's a bit difficult to polish a turd isn't it. These people will get their comeuppance one day. Can't wait.

Anonymous said...

@15.37 I agree it would take a magician to sort this shower out, way beyond the realms of an ordinary human being.
Only thing is we're left with the same shower we started with, get rid of them all

Anonymous said...

15:37.
Hello Clive.

Anonymous said...

"15:37.
Hello Clive."

This simpleton of an anon thinks that, after having had an opportunity to say what he wants on national Telly, Clive would then post anonymously on a blog.

Well, I suppose every community needs its village idiot. It seems that Anon 18 41 is ours here on this blog. Be kind people, be kind.Bless.

Anonymous said...

20:11
O'k Smart arse.

But the truth will prevail, then you will all be in for one hell of a shock. Lets say by tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

www.ynysmon.com Blows the lid of Clive McGregor tonight.
Not one to be missed.

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Anonymous said...

Having attended several public meetings held by Councillor McGregor, I am disappointed that he has found it necessary to resign as Leader of the Council. I am inclined to believe his account of what has been happening and agree that the only way for our Council to move forward is for the electorate to ensure those Councillors named are not elected at the next election. It seems that integrity is not a quality held by many of our Councillors - hopefully in future, our elected representatives will fight for their constituents first.

Anonymous said...

What they are going to give us instead of CMcG are the ones who got us in this mess in the first place where's the sense in that

Anonymous said...

00:27
Hopefully a more honest person this time round.

Anonymous said...

00:27
Hopefully a more honest person this time round.