Saturday, 19 March 2011

Changing Allegiances? (updated)

In his statement to the Senedd on Wednesday, Carl Sargeant made a great deal of how Commissioners were necessary because Anglesey Council was unstable due to Councillors changing groups in order to support the latest plots. His exact words were:

 "...the membership of political groups changes on a whim, as members back or oppose the latest plot.  In the last 18 months, around a third of all councillors have changed their allegiance between various groups at least once, with scarcely any attempt to justify their actions to those they represent.  Imagine the uproar if 20 AMs or 215 MPs did so."  

Today's Western Mail unquestioningly repeats this 'fact' in painting the antics at Anglesey Council as the "ugliest example of cynical politics". However the truth is that a third of councillors (i.e. 13 members) have not changed allegiance – and not a single one has done so more than once as claimed by Sargeant. Furthermore the single largest change of allegiance came about in June 2010 when WAG appointee David Bowles himself engineered the split of the Original Independents by encouraging Clive McGregor to form his four man Llais i Fôn group.

Since then Llais i Fôn was bolstered by one more member following the Rhosneigr by-election – but that surely doesn't count as a member changing allegiance.

More recently another member of the Original Independents was coaxed to leave the Independents by both David Bowles and Clive McGregor, though its unclear whether he is now a member of Llais i Fôn or just unaffiliated left of his own free will to become an unaffiliated councillor due to disillusionment with the direction taken by the group [Updated 19 Mar @22:15 following contact from the Councillor in question]

One member of the Menai Group left to become unaffiliated several months ago. That was certainly not in order to support any "plot".

And finally the three members of Anglesey Forward/Môn Ymlaen joined the Original Independents at the beginning of this year.

That makes a total of just nine 'changes of allegiance', the majority of which were instigated by and supported by WAG appointee David Bowles. Why does WAG feel it needs to embellish the truth in order to justify suspending local democracy and sending in the Commissioners?

143 comments:

Prometheuswrites said...

There are two seperate but related issues here.

The first is sending the Commissioners in. Sergeant doesn't need to justify his decision by using the 'changing allegiance argument' - the council was failing on all sorts of counts as detailed in the past and recent audit reports. so sending in the Commissioners was inevitable, especially as Gwynedd obviously doesn't want to touch Anglesey politics with a barge pole. I support the Commissioners as an interim stop-gap, at least until we can have new elections with a wider field of choice of candiates for election, or we try a brave new experiment in the democratic process - (more on that in a future post).

The second issue is: who the Commissioners are, how they are chosen and what their remit will be - all issues raised by Ms German, Mr Morgan and Mr Isherwood in the recent Senned debate.

Worryingly the awkward questions raised by Mr Isherwood were dismissed and ignored by Mr Sergeant (sounds familiar that doesn't it).

Unfortunately this sort of response by Mr Sergeant just hightens suspicions that we are increasingly governed by a rotating elite of unelected self-awarding highly paid bureaucratic executives, where 'performance' is irrelevent to appointment.

As usual 'transparency' and 'trust' are the keywords.

not only but also said...

Paul

All I can say about this post is SAD - really SAD. You used to be a beacon of hope, an alternative voice of reason.

Beyond the 'Peoples Manifesto' I'm still awating for you to put foward a solution to the current impass.

Blaiming others aint one of them!

Paul Williams said...

Not Only - WAG are purposefully painting the situation in Anglesey as worse than it was in order to disguise a costly intervention that made the political situation worse rather than better – this is an example in point. There was no need for Sargeant to embellish the truth as he has done.

The problems at the council remain as they were in the 1990s: a small core of councillors who are serving nobody's purpose but their own. In order to solve problems exclusively caused by this handful of councillors WAG has effectively taken a very large and expensive sledgehammer in order to crack a very small nut. 18 months later the nut is not only still intact, it has actually grown larger.

The solutions to the problem are obvious:

- Compulsory retirement after a certain age;
- Introduction of a two term limit, although ex-Councillors would free to seek election after sitting out one term
- Finally, as distasteful as it might seem, financial incentives for certain councillors to step down permanently.

All this could and should have been done years ago, without the need to waste half a million pounds of tax payers money on this latest failed intervention.

kp said...

It was a small core of Nazi's that were responsible for the Holocaust. But, quite rightly the majority got blamed for not doing anything about it.

All Anglesey councillors must take the blame. They saw and yet did nothing.

Shame on them!

Anonymous said...

As and when are free to elect our next set of councillors I hope a few Anglesonians will have the courage to stand.

This is certainly what we need if we are to restore faith in democracy.

Prometheuswrites said...

Re: Transparency

See Page 151 for Isle of Anglesey.

"No Statement of Accounts figures for 2008/09 and refused to answer FOI requests for Town Hall Rich List 2010".

From The Taxpayers Alliance website - with thanks to 'Carmarthenshire Planning Problems' blog for the link.

www.taxpayersalliance.com/thrl2011.pdf

Anonymous said...

Steady on KP.

There's a world of difference between undemocratic behaviour and a holocaust.

Watch out for Mr Godwin and his law.

Which is not to say that point you are alluding to about collective action and standing up to vested interests isn't without merit.

Anonymous said...

"They also fail to serve who only stand and wait"

Iv'e seen a new councillor, who replaced one of the last batch of discredited councillors, in action.

He's having no impact. Standing and waving his hands and shrugging. Shaking his head and saying "what can you do".

For evil to triumph it is sufficient for men of good will to do nothing.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

KP - I think you mean 'Germans and other nationalities' not 'nazis'.

All nazis were responsible for the holocaust not just a small core of them.

It's a small core of Germans supported by a small core of other nationalities that you mean.

Anonymous said...

Anon 14:36

Thanks but in actual fact I meant just exactly what I wrote.

Apologies if such parallels do not mean much to some of you guys/gels, I am of an age where it is still hard to forget.

kp said...

the 14:41 comment was from me.

Anonymous said...

We keep hearing about a small group of councillors and the wrong they have done, but why are their names and deeds kept a secret, and when are they going to be made public?

Anonymous said...

Good point anon 15.02

At what point does not naming those who have been criticised become part of the problem of standing by and doing nothing?

Thus reducing those who refuse to name names either on the blogs or in the assembly to the same status as those 'few good' councillors who did nothing.

Of course this reluctance to name names has very good reasons - getting sued for libel is no fun.

So how about naming the good councillors instead?

Anonymous said...

The whole Council was in disrepute, it's reputation was in tatters, and if it wasn't for the commissioners coming in, it would still be the same old mess.

I for one, am for a cull, and a clean out. Unless I am totally stupid, they were all there for one purpose, to gain, at our expense.

They have been found out as being unfit for purpose, so they have been put in the spotlight and they don't like it. Guess how many ficticious Enforcement Notices have been made up since 1971, a total of 36, and they are still looking for more, if that isn't cause to dismantle this Council I don't know what is.

The Red Flag said...

KP - what you wrote was "It was a small core of Nazi's that were responsible"

It wasn't a small core of nazis that were responsible it was all of the nazis that were responsinble. To say it was only a 'small core' absolves the majority of nazis of any guilt which is unacceptable.

not only but also said...

Thanks for your reply Paul (at 13:12),

Putting aside the good work of the majority of the Council staff, I think I can paraphrase what the majority of the people I have spoken to recently said:

“Isn’t is bad in Japan, and Libya and Bahrain and what about the cost of petrol – the only good news recently has been that the so called Councillors of Anglesey have been sacked”.

And Amen to that - I think the ideas you have are worth pursuing, we need new ideas to stimulate a proper discussion about future democracy on the island.

The question is are you the person; ready and willing, to lead that debate?

After all nobody else seems willing to do so.

kp said...

Red Flag, you are right. And that is precisely my point. Good councillors, bad councillors, none of them should be absolved.

Anonymous said...

RF - I think KP may be blurring 'German' with 'nazi'.

Anonymous said...

Druid.

It is clear from your post that Carl Sargeant told lies to try and justify sending in the Commissioners and he won't get away with it.

You have also shown in tangible terms that David Bowles has been engineering the whole down fall of the Council for ulterior motives and he to will not be allowed to get away with it unlike having done so in the past.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't the excuse of the Nazi's " We were only obeying orders" can that excuse be used on Anglesey, or was each Councillor a law unto him/herself?

Anonymous said...

I fail to understand why Bowles is still appointed.

Did he not fail ? Miserably. A very costly mistake.

And, I`m still not convinced that the WAG have got things right.

Commissioners - Yes.

Same faces running the show in two years time - No.

Groundhog Day said...

Not Only But Also..... Sorry but you are under a misapprehension, no councillors have been "sacked". The are all there in place still drawing their allowances and expenses. Sargeant has alluded to a possible sanction of reducing these payments but the tumours are still there on the banks of the Cefni smug and content that their wallets will continue to be stuffed by Anglesey tax-payers hard earned money.

The Red Flag said...

This has been deliberately designed to fail. That in turn will justify amalgamation with Gwynedd in 2 years or so.

The number of island councillors will then be reduced, ward boundaries re-drawn in such a way that the worst offenders will have a hell of a job retaining their seat and then Bowles and Sergeant will scarper.

kp said...

Anon 17:26

Spot on.

And should we allow any of our councillors to use such an excuse? I think not.

As for you guys who assume that I have mixed up Nazi party members and German people, I cite you as an example of the appalling education we have here.

The Red Flag said...

KP - I think it's the way you wrote it - it 'suggests' that you believe only a core of Nazis were guilty not all of them.

John said...

I think Mr. Williams, 19 March 2011 13:12 ...

... your suggestion that there should be

- Compulsory retirement after a certain age;


... is definitely disrespectful, probably illegal.

The Red Flag said...

John, I was thinking the same thing - that it would be in breach of age discrimination legislation.

Anonymous said...

I think that 100% of the residents are glad the commissioners are here, but, a 100% of the Councillors are not, however, if the commissioners had not arrived we would still be banging on about the mess in the Council, let's see what they uncover, and let's give them time.

I think Carl Sargeant was brought in, because the whole Council is embarassing, not only to the Assembly, but to the people as well.

The Red Flag said...

let's see what they uncover

I don't think they'll uncover anything. I don't think that's what they are here for.

Quite the opposite in fact. I think they are here to put a gap between this council and whatever happens in 2 years time. An unbridgeable gap with no looking back.

Don't think they'll manage it though and I don't even think they are meant to.

Insider said...

The Commissions are here, we will now see what wrong doings have taken place and who is responsible.

David Bowles didn't even have a remit, thats why he was able to cover up wrongdoings by his Officers.

The Commissioner do have a remit and it does include routing out the Wrong-un's once and for all.

The Red Flag said...

I think not insider. The Commissioners are composed of discredited people and is designed to fail. This is merely window dressing so that in 2 years time they can say "Oh well, we tried. All that's left is amalgamation"

Anonymous said...

I think that Carl Sargeant is bring in his retired buddies in to make more of a mess of things. He sent Bowles here at an enormous cost to and he has made things worse.
Why not bring a person in from the private sector who has experience in running a successful business. Instead of these failures who tarred with same brush !!!

Un o Fon

Anonymous said...

If memory serves me right Byron Davies was the other half of the Russell Goodway Vs district auditor show. Also on his watch while money was being pumped into Cardiff Bay, Cardiff's Schools, social and roads were a total mess.

druids better half said...

Get a life all of you people against Bowles! I can assure you he has more respect than any previous md as he tells the truth! We have moved leaps and bounds during his 'reign' as some of you would say. The auditors report jan 11 does not lie! The staff work better for somebody they respect. The same old politics has given us a bad name again and no political party could sort this mess...including the druids conservative no hopes! He himself has no ideas as hes using ideas used in us already as his own! Pathetic! He should be spending more time helping not hindering!

He Who Knows Better. said...
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A Councillor said...
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In the Know. said...

Now the Commissions have been installed, will they be giving consideration to suspending those in Office accused of Dishonesty, pending proper investigation by proper Independent Investigators? Or will they, as with David Bowles and the former MD continue to brush the whole lot under the carpet and keep abusing the Whistle Blowers?

This will be their acid test and if not done right could bring them down as with David Bowles and Clive McGregor.

Some would like to see all this forgotten and a line drawn, but there is much that lines can be drawn under but not acts of dishonest which have benefited some Officer and Councillors at the detriment of other, especially as those responsible are still there and still doing it.

Leave one rotten apple in the barrel and the whole lot will continue to rot.

Anonymous said...

The big looser in this whole shambles is David Bowles. Had he been the right person for the job, Carl Sargeant wound have no need to send in the commission's. Will he now be made to give his salary back having obtained it under false pretenses?

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:33

The big loser in all of this is Anglesey and its rate payers.

If the councillors had administered their duties with transparency, accountability would not have become an issue.

They are all to blame, every single one of them and especially that one who decided not to speak up (or was it actually the majority who decided not to speak up).

A Gagged Anglesonian Elected Member said...

Anon 12.06-

"They are all to blame, every single one of them and especially that one who decided not to speak up (or was it actually the majority who decided not to speak up)."

ALL Councillors were instructed by Bowles NOT to go to the Press/Media with anything until he had vetted what they had to say..(Except if your name was McGregor)-So-the concerned Councillors were in fact gagged from bringing wrongdoings to the Public Arena....But as you all know one Councillor did just that and look what happened to him---Barrie Durkin..you were the brave one..you have the silent support of many other good and honest Councillors of Ynys Mon...Keep up the good and honest work....Does that answer your concerns Anon.. ??

A Gagged Anglesonian Elected Member said...
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A Gagged Anglesonian Elected Member said...

Blog Readers..for some reason the Druid is refusing to print my Blog which shows where all the problems stem from..therefore I suggest that you look up blog ynysmon.com ..March 15th..Says it all..

Is this o.k. to you Druid ??

The one watching in the Gallery said...

FOR INFORMATION TO YOUR READERS-Druid-your statement says--""And finally the three members of Anglesey Forward/Môn Ymlaen joined the Original Independents at the beginning of this year.""
But is it not also fair to say that the other 14 Members of the Original Independents have been members of that Group from when they were Elected by their supporting Electorate..The only break ups of this Group has been McGregor and his cronies leaving in search of greater things..the same also of the Member who left recently (the one who contacted you to ammend your statement).
Therefore this Group consisting of 17 Members is the strongest Group within the Authority.

Paul Williams said...

10:09 The councillor in question disputes that version of events therefore in the interests of fairness I have deleted your comment.

13:23 I haven't refused to print your comment. The Blogger platform will automatically not publish comments which are too long. I suggest you try shortening it and reposting.

A Gagged Anglesonian Member said...

Thanks for that response Druid-I have therefore reproduced as Part 1 & Part 2-
Here is Part 1-
Extract from http://ynysmon.com makes interesting reading..Shows where the real problem begun !!

Anglesey - looking into the "Anglesey Plc" goldfish bowl
After collecting some thoughts the following assessment is presented:

1. Former Councillor Phil Fowlie's letter to WAG (denouncing problems with officers co-operation) was composed by Cllr Clive McGregor.

2. WAG's response to Cllr Phil Fowlie (cry for help) was to parachute in a "troubleshooter" aka Managing Director David Bowles to resolve the problems.

3. Cllr Clive McGregor became leader replacing Cllr Phil Fowlie.

4. Cllr Clive McGregor resigned from the Original Independents (his party who appointed him leader)

5. Cllr Clive McGregor forms a new party where he invites "only a select few politicians" to join him providing they sign a "tow the line agreement" which is probably ultra vires and illegal.

6. Some Councillors refuse to sign the "tow the line agreement" and are duly expunged from the party.

7. The expunged politicians are "named and shamed"

8. Cllr Clive McGregor with support from MD David Bowles begins to shape his party, agreeing vis a vis a merger of planning (policy) departments between Gwynedd and Anglesey.

9. The fall out's continue and politicians defect

10. Post Christmas 2010 a leadership challenge with RG Parry and John Chorlton jockying for the top job but Carl Sargeant AM's warnings are heeded preventing "WAG Commissioners taking over or a full merger with Gwynedd"

11. IWJ and Albert Owen become involved in broking power between Plaid Cymru, Labour and The Original Independents (led by Bryan Owen) to form a 30 strong group opposing Leader Clive McGregor's group

12. MD David Bowles names Bryan Owen as "inappropriate" to lead The Original Independents preferring Gwynedd Council employee and Anglesey Councillor Ieuan Williams as group leader.

13. MD David Bowles also cites "bullying" of officers by Councillors as a problem.

A Gagged Anglesonian Member said...

AND now Part 2--

Where is this all going?

a) Council Leader Cllr Clive McGregor seems UNLIKELY to resign in May 2011 - this is a smokescreen.

b) MD David Bowles is now using "bullying of officers" as his latest campaign.......was he not appointed because officers REFUSED TO OBEY ORDERS and were NOT ACTING IMPARTIALLY?

Why has MD David Bowles now turned the argument around 180 degrees - is this survival instinct?

The MD's tactics echo of previous "wars" with politicians at previous local authorities all catalogued on this site.

c) MD David Bowles is looking for "blood on the carpet" - whatever that means. A very agressive statement from a man who prides himself on "integrity"

d) Cllr Bryan Owen is in David Bowles' cross hairs.

e) This vicious cycle will continue until either WAG withdraw MD Bowles, Leader Cllr Clive McGregor resigns forthwith or legal remidy is sought........via the courts.

In the meantime, Anglesey is suffering "chronic" unemployment and housing shortages and the MD of Anglesey Council is busy fighting Councillors and does not have time to "deal with the day to day running of Anglesey Council" which is left to senior officers where lies the problem in the first place according to former Councillor Phil Fowlies' letter composed by the now Leader Cllr Clive McGregor!

The recovery board are "rudderless, feckless and overpaid" and for God's sake, make a DECISION..!!

A very well informed Anon. said...
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One who may forgive said...

Well..Well..having read postings @ 12:30,14:05,16:13 & 16:15 it seems that Clive has been and still is the main problem..Well Clive..this is your chance to admit to your errors here publicly on the Druids Blog and apologise to the People of Anglesey for letting them down...Come on Clive..just this once..Be Honest before you leave this Country..It's not too late to make ammends..(remember your letter of December 2008 to Mr Derrick Jones !!!)..

Voice from The Past said...
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Whiter than White said...

Lots of named Councillors here on your Blog Druid...How's about naming the GOOD ones !!!-surely some of your readers have a Good Councillor ??

Anonymous said...

@21:50 You may want to define "good councillor".

If you define "good" as "sticking to David Bowle's rules" you will get different names qualifying as "good" than if you define good as "standing up for what is legal, decent, honest, and truthful" (aka, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth).

Whiter than White said...

Anonymous 21:59-I'll go with your second option !

Voice from the Past said...
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Whiter than White said...

Why not list all 40 with either a "Tick" aginst the Good Ones and a "cross" aginst the Bad Ones...Should be interesting !!!

Boundary Commissar said...

I understand the boundary changes will help ease the retirement decision of some of those who believed themselves capable of leading the council.

I, furher understand seats such as Bryngwran and Kingsland, Holyhead will disappear.

How unfortunate.

Anonymous said...

"Why not list all 40 with either a "Tick" aginst the Good Ones and a "cross" aginst the Bad Ones..."

Dunno about that, but for Westminster, the website www.theyworkforyou.com keeps track of members' votes and speeches. They do the same for the Scottish parliament too.

Theyworkforyou doesn't cover the Welsh Assembly, but wouldn't it be nice if a group of bloggers could do something factual (no value judgements) along those lines for IoACC members, so people could easily and consistently see what their representatives have and haven't been up to?

Of course in order to do this you'd need an accurate published record of IoACC votes and discussions...

The Red Flag said...

@One who may forgive said...
Clive is only a small part of the problem. Some of the problem is also other councillors, some is senior council officers and some the MD himself.

Boundary Commissar said...
JC will just be given first dibs at a new ward. He's to well thought of inside the Holyhead Labour machine. Likewise other individuals in other groups.

Richard Sletzer said...

PAUL'S SOLUTIONS:

Listed the following steps to weed out crap councillors (my words not his):-
*Compulsory retirement after a certain age;. ...not very pc! Some older, and hopefully wiser, councillors should be a bonus rather than a handicap
*Introduction of a two term limit - but IMHO, like US Presidents, there should be a complete ban on any subsequent term
*"Financial incentives" to induce certain councillors to step down Hmmm not at all sure the council taxpayers would be happy with this. ...and why only "certain councillors" . Once a pay off is announced they'll all want a slice of the pie. A cheaper inducement would surely is to offer them immunity from prosecution.
And finally, might I suggest no candidate be allowed to stand for election unless they pass an IQ test?

Anonymous said...

And finally, might I suggest no candidate be allowed to stand for election unless they pass an IQ test?

That's half the tory shire MPs sunk without a trace then.

Photon said...

"A cheaper inducement would surely is to offer them immunity from prosecution."

I don't really think we want to see anyone accused of criminal wrongdoing escaping a trial and punishment if found guilty. Do we?

Prometheuswrites said...
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Prometheuswrites said...

er ... Photon:

I think the trial bit comes before the finding guilty.

(Unless one of the commissioners is the Red Queen from Alice in Wonderland).

But you are correct - if there's evidence of wrongdoing then there needs to be a 'proportionate' process by which redress can be gained.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Red Flag:
"Boundary Commissar said...
JC will just be given first dibs at a new ward. He's to well thought of inside the Holyhead Labour machine. Likewise other individuals in other groups."

you mean he's too well thought of by himself! hahaha!

If the Labour machine Holyhead knows what's good for it, it gonna dump JC. If not, then the people will dump Labour. End of Labour in IoaCC. hahaha:))

so I hope Labour don't persaude him to retire, and so he drags Labour down to a mega defeat!!

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

I think a couple of thousand hours community service/sweeping the streets, wearing a bright orange jacket is the minimum our councillors owe us. And how about some of the proceedings of their crime returned as well.

Anonymous said...

16:56
The vast majority of Councillors are very honest People, so stop tarring them all with the same brush.

Anonymous said...

"The vast majority of Councillors are very honest People, so stop tarring them all with the same brush"

Maybe they started that way, but there appears to be enough evidence (which hopefully will one day lead to court cases) that at least SOME councillors and officers have fallen well below the standards which their electors expect, and below the standards which the "Nolan Committee" has said should apply.

So, if "honest" councillors know that abuse of privilege is occuring, and know who is involved, and say or do nothing about it, what then? And if the monitoring systems are so broken that councillors can't see the abuse but can see the opportunity, are they still "honest" in your book?

These folks are not all unpaid volunteers doing stuff in their own time, like in days gone by. Some of them are rewarded very nicely thank you. In return for that, electors are entitled to expect a bit more than silence in the face of adversity.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Started Honest 18:55.

Started Honest and still are.

It is not their fault having raised their concerns about dishonesty among some Councillors and Officers that the Authority does everything possible to cover up, including make those honest Councillors lives a living hell. If you new how much, it would make Your hair turn white over night.

Anonymous said...
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Paul Williams said...

21:26 Please use more temperate language.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough Druid, I shall rephrase it.

The vast majority of Councillors are very honest People, so stop tarring them all with the same brush.

Some of them are crooks. Some of them are worse than crooks becuase they knew what was going on and said nothing publicly.

taflu fyny said...

@2130
"The vast majority of Councillors are very honest People, so stop tarring them all with the same brush.
"

across the UK, suppose this is true. but the druid is talking about Anglesey, i believe?

Anonymous said...

TARO 9 Tonight.
Nothing new. Still failing to show the real problems.

As long as Anglesey County Council, continue to name whistle blowers, who are highlighting alleged fraud, corruption, and malfeasant's in public office, preferring to abuse and attack the messengers, there will be no peace within Anglesey County Council.

There is a feeling that the new Commissioners want a line drawing under the past, but not on Dishonesty, which has put David Bowles in a humiliating position.

Anonymous said...

Well..Well..Taro 9..Cllr Rhian Medi said it all...Bowles & McGregor F**ked it all up...Now-there speaks a sensible Lady...

Anonymous said...

TARO 9
David Bowles in refusing to be interviewed really epitomized his self serving arrogance.

He came to help sort out the Councils problems and has become the problem.

If Carl Sargeant can't see that he must be as mad as Bowles.

Sack him quickly before you cause serious unrest.

Legal Beagle said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

This time last week wasn't someone somewhere on here talking about every household on the island being leafleted by an interested party in the ongoing Bowles/McGregor/IoACC saga? Can't find it right now, pointers welcome.

Anyway, did anything actually happen or was it just more hot air from one of the usual suspects?

Anonymous said...

does anybody watch Tarot 9?

real question is: will election be 2012 or 2013? and will it be for a Mayor?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Would it not be fair to say, all these very public problems could have been dealt with on a much lower key had it not been for the election and intervention of Motor Mouth?

Druid, I may have missed it somewhere but how are the Thrilling Three to be paid for? will their cost come the Anglesey Budget?....from us!!

Anglesey Islander

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

23:23 change your tone and you would more than likely get the results you wish for.
When you describe anyone with the interests of the people at heart as "hot air" and the "usual suspects" you'll find yourself not getting the respect you may deserve and on a hiding to nothing.

Anonymous said...

Druid.
Do you know why discredited Clive McGregor's "Terms of(HATE)Engagement" are still on the Council's web site?

This hatred has been the main cause of the current problems and have caused Carl Sargeant, to send in the Commissioners. So why are they still on the Council's web site provoking even more trouble?

Anonymous said...

When the leaflets are delivered, or some substance appears to support the reported plans, it stops being hot air.

Till then, readers will quietly draw their own conclusions, and mostly they will keep their thoughts to themselves. I just happen to have gone public with my disappointment (a promise not delivered is worse than no promise at all?). Others will be wondering more quietly, whether there was/is anything to this plan, and if there was, whether it might have been better to keep quiet till the plan was really ready. Oh well, too late now.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Since Bowles is here on a private contract, shouldn't he get paid for his results? i.e. Nothing.

Anonymous said...

05:45
We can't be seen not allowing Bowles a big slice of the cake now, can we? After all this whole affair has been created, in part, so that those cretins at the top can milk it for all its worth. Their not interested in the out come. Just the money they can make out of it.

Anonymous said...

Taro 9

Bob the Farmer was on - hip hip

He can fix it, yes he can.....

Why do you keep removing this blog Mr Druid....something amiss with your philosophy for free speech me thinks

Anonymous said...

23:42
"Do you know why discredited Clive McGregor's "Terms of(HATE)Engagement" are still on the Council's web site?"

Amazing how people like J Chorltn, H Thomas and B Parry expect to be taken seriously by anyone, when they signed up to these above "hate" terms.

where is the integrity and credibility? please help me, am i missing something?

Anonymous said...

09:02
You will find your comment is part of the mass leafleting which is to take place once the Solicitors have Ok the all contents.

The Red Flag said...

Anonymous said...
"This time last week wasn't someone somewhere on here talking about every household on the island being leafleted by an interested party in the ongoing"

It was on one of the other threads. An 'argument' then ensued between about 4 people as to what constituted mass-leafletting. I side with it's not mass leafleting unless a leaflet is delivered to every individual household. Standing in a town centre dishing them out etc is static leafleting.

It will be interesting to see which it is in reality - mass or static.

Anonymous said...

Sermasntics

Anonymous said...

Anglesey Islander 23.18

I see there is no response about who is paying for the Thrilling Three who are going to administer us......who IS paying ??

The Red Flag said...

Anonymous said...
Sermasntics

So from that then we can assume it isn't door-to-door and it's merely people handing them out in town centres etc.

Hardly 'mass leafleting'.

Anonymous said...

Red Flag.
Ask your Labour buddies. By all account, their the ones organizing everything, after all it was Albert Owen along with IWJ who got involved on behalf of Labours JC and Plaids BP, in their bid to take over the Council,

The Red Flag said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Red Flag said...

Red Flag. Ask your Labour buddies

They aren't my buddies - they haven't been since they lied and attacked Iraq.

I shall make enquiries though because I doubt very much that they will do anything that jeopordises JC's future as a Councillor nor embarrasses Albert being as he stepped in to try and prop up the council in it's current form.

From their perspective the ideal world would be the disappearance of WAGs Sargeant and his commissioners and probably the removal of or at least neutering of Bowles and the current council put back in charge. They certainly won't be campaigning to have the dirty washing done in public as some of it is allegedly theirs.

But that's an aside. The question is whether it will be mass leafleting or not. I doubt at this moment in time if even the local Labour machine possesses the legs to leafet every household - they used to rely a lot on. Therefore to be 'mass' that only leaves using the posties but that would require using party money so whatever it says it would have to tow the party line and not embarrass anyone in it locally who holds power, nor undermine the authority of the Labour-led administration in Cardiff Bay - in fact it would have to support it and it's decisions otherwise Carwyn Jones will be getting a sad on. Nor would it be able to have a go at Plaid mainly because it was AO and IWJ together who tried to prop up what was already a blatantly failing council.

Believer in Fairness said...

Well.Well-how's about that then ??
Page 6 Daily Post today under the heading "INCOMPETENT"..."Heads must roll over £635 K Housing Benefit Blunder"...No..It's not IOACC.....But...The Authority where Alex Aldridge was Leader and where Carl Sargeant is A.M. !!!...So is their reaction to the Ynys Mon situation a smokescreen to try and cover Flint Council's problems ?????

The Red Flag said...

Believer in Fairness said... I stand by what I suggested the other day. This intervention of Commissioners is deliberately designed to fail so that in 2 years time they can amalgamate Anglesey & Gwynedd on the grounds that they've tried everything and it's failed so that's the only alternative left.

Bit if a 'conspiracy theory' but I can so no other reason to send people here who are so obviously going to fail unless they deliberately want it to fail in the first place.

Another Believer in Fairness said...

To Red Flag & others...Bound to fail if the following is anything to go by..
Daily Post.22/03/11..Page 6
INCOMPETENT..Angry Councillors:Heads must roll over £635k housing benefit blunder..
“The report by the Wales Audit Office has identified a number of serious weaknesses in the manner in which Flintshire Council has processed claims for housing benefit in the 2008/9 and 2009/10 financial years.
Cllr Bernie Attridge, deputy leader of the opposition, has demanded resignations over the mistakes.
“The taxpayers of Flintshire pay top salaries to the people charged with looking after the county finances and they expect them to do better.
“This money could be better spent on protecting our libraries and heads should roll for this.”
A damning report by the Wales Audit Office has identified a catalogue of ‘weaknesses’ in the authority’s complex housing benefit payment system, including an overpayment to tenants of more than £235,000.
And as a result of a separate error, it could also have to pay back as much as £397,000 to the Department of Work and Pensions due to an overclaim for housing benefit reimbursement.
Who was the Leader 2008/09/10 ???

Have they sent in a Commisioner of Incompetency to save IOACC ????

Flintonian said...

This is a comment left on the Daily Post site today regarding the Flintshire Council fiasco..."Errors of this nature are disgraceful and cannot be excused. This is tax payers money the Council have been mishandling. The Head of Finance should resign over the incompetence within her department.
This is a very poor Council. The Leader is weak, the Chief Executive little better.
We desperately need changes at the top because this Council is not acting in the best interest of the people of Flintshire."

Couple of comments there made me think I was reading about IOACC !!.."The Leader is Weak" and "The Chief Executive little better"..???
Well Fellow Bloggers..What do you think ??..

Happy Anglesey Rent Payer said...

Hey...just found something that IOACC is better at than Gwynedd, Conway,Flint and several others...
Flint going to Ballot to transfer Housing Stock to a Housing Association,same as Conway and Gwynedd have already done..seems they were "Incompetent" in bringing their properties up to Welsh Housing Quality Standars as laid down by the Assembly...So..have these 3 Councils..and others..FAILED ??..Why were the Commissioners not called in to these Councils...Well Done IOACC..at least you looked after us Tenants...Congratulations...now why dont you go and show the others how it's done..I am very,very pleased with what youve done to my house for me and my Family...

sglyfarth drwg said...

Red Flag 1907:
"I doubt very much that they will do anything that jeopordises JC's future as a Councillor ..."

what future? with fewer councillors next time, he will have to fight 3 others for only 3 places.

The Red Flag said...

sglyfarth drwg

Tribalism. He will carry the Labour block vote. Rarely do people vote for personalities except in very rural places. Mostly they will vote for their party

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Thats not all.
The Leaders page on the Councils Web Site, has also gone as if he never existed.
A parting of the ways and clean sweep comes to mind?

The Red Flag said...

also, for your info; people don't tend to vote on party lines in locals, esp. on anglesey

They do in certain areas hence JC. Labour could stand anyone in that Kingsland area and they would win. Even that globe-trotting schmuck Blair. In places such as that personalty politics has little relevance.

Neil said...

They do in certain areas hence JC. Labour could stand anyone in that Kingsland area and they would win. Even that globe-trotting schmuck Blair. In places such as that personalty politics has little relevance.


Remember who originated from this area..Maes Cyttir..the one and only Glenys Kinnock !!

Prince of Wales said...

Just realised this evening The Anglesey Telegraph Blogsite Editor is related to "Llewelyn ein Llyw Olaf"!(see his coat of arms!!) whilst The Red Flag is an "Owain Glyndwr Fan",,,,If you are related there is about 2 centuries between you ????..(by the way-the age gap does show in the quality of your Blogging !!)

Anonymous said...

This sounds like the start of something that might be interesting.

I hope some folks have kept copies of pages of interest now that things are starting to disappear - terms of engagement, leaders page, etc, as they don't appear to be cached in the usual way at Google. If I'd thought about it in advance, I'd have kept safe copies. Too late now.

Local Historian said...

I've kept them all...!!!--For the Future ???

Anonymous said...

Photon tonight.
Says it all

Paul Williams said...

Many, many comments deleted for the usual reasons.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Red Flag said...

@ Prince of Wales said...

I don't have a blog.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Red Flag said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Puck said...

Red Flag:

The perils of choosing an ambiguous 'blogger' name.

Obviously there are people commenting on here who are incapable of telling the difference between a Liverpool FC supporter and a Socialist, (not that the two are mutually exclusive), despite your earlier attempts to enlighten them.

Good job you're not a Chelsea supporter or they'd be calling you a Tory.

Maes Llwyn said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Funnily enough Puck, JC is a Liverpool supporter as well.

The Red Flag said...

Good job you're not a Chelsea supporter or they'd be calling you a Tory.

If I was a Chavski fan I'd be in tears about blowing 50M on a striker that no longer scores goals.

Anonymous said...

The main reason the Council has been taken over by the Commissioners is the embarassement this Council has caused for years.

Labour and Plaid Cymru have lost touch with the people, and the smell from this Council has drifted all the way down to Cardiff, they were sick to death of hearing about the mess, so they came up to sort it all out.

We hope all complaints and issues will be looked at, and if there is any wrong doings, then hopefully, the law will come down on them.

This sort of Council would never exist in South Wales, it was it's isolation and the power mad Councillors that created this mess. They acted beyond the law, let's hope they get a reality check if they have broken it.

As for Glenys Kinnock and her husband, they abandoned us all, years ago, we only have Durkin now, to help us out.

Anonymous said...

19.27 Durkin ??........how delusional can you be...wake up and smell the coffee !!

Maes Llwyn said...

The wisdom in wise and intelligent quarters is that this Council, as presently constituted, can not, and does not want to, be saved.
The Commissioners is just a temporary sticking plaster to get Sargent past the May election.
We hear reliable reports of the usual culprits scheming, plotting and undermining the Commissioners already, as predicted.
It has yet again become a game, a filthy political game, of brinksmanship.
The usual cadre of delusional and venomous obstructives are back at work....they never went away !
And the Druid will not allow them to be named on this Blog, but we the People know who they are !
The Commissioners will not succeed.
Sargent will not succeed.
The Boundary Commissioners might help in squeezing some out...the Mayoral idea is doomed to fail.
Can we truly believe that any of the venomous known culprits will ever be elected to Mayor, hardly !
I am for a forced merger with Gwynedd...with 50% less Members....Sargent has the power to make it happen.
We deserve better than this ?

Anonymous said...

"As for Glenys Kinnock and her husband, they abandoned us all, years ago"

They did too. But not before Kinnock's famous and all too prophetic 1983 speech in Bridgend, Glamorgan. Twenty eight years on and more relevant than ever (just change the PM's name for the one in charge of today's Millionaires Cabinet of cutters, slashers and destroyers):

"If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you. I warn you that you will have pain – when healing and relief depend upon payment. I warn you that you will have ignorance – when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right. I warn you that you will have poverty – when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won’t pay in an economy that can't pay. I warn you that you will be cold – when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don't notice and the poor can't afford.

I warn you that you must not expect work – when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don't earn, they don't spend. When they don't spend, work dies. I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light. I warn you that you will be quiet – when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient. I warn you that you will have defence of a sort – with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding. I warn you that you will be home-bound – when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up. I warn you that you will borrow less – when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.

If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday, I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old."

For that speech, if for nothing else, Mr Kinnock, respect is due.

The Red Flag said...

It is a rather good speech. Nearly as good as the one by Jimmy Read - the 'Man is a social animal' one.

In the Know. said...

The only battle going on at Anglesey County Council is Democracy v Autocracy. There can only be but one winner. If the latter was to succeed you may as well all emigrate.

Anonymous said...

19:42.
Your a lone voice in the wilderness.
Never mind the coffee, just wake up.

The Red Flag said...

For those of you that have never read Jinny Reid's speech:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/still-irresistible-a-workingclass-heros-finest-speech-2051285.html

As true today as it was then.

Anonymous said...

12.42: red flag

you must be joking. Labour localy will defo not risk JC as Mayor candadate; especiaslly after his failed coup against CMcG a month or so ago.

I think he'll be asked to retire.

Anonymous said...

especiaslly after his failed coup against CMcG

And who was backing the coup? And publicly? AO on the one side and IWJ on the other. So the 'coup' must have been - by their involvement - desirable to them and JC being leader or deputy the desired outcome of both Labour and Plaid.

John Doe said...

I see from the IOACC Website this evening that they are experiencing "Communication Problems"...what's new..It's been like this since Mc Gregor became (as per Auditor's Report an Inexperienced Leader)Leader and the Bombastic Interim M.D.

THESE 2 HAVE BEEN AND STILL ARE (AT PRESENT ?)REAL ,SERIOUS "COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS"

John Doe said...

Hey Druid..who are you protecting-Farmer Bob a friend of yours ??must be some connection !!..yes I know he was a regular at Tafarn y Rhos..but is there more ??Must be for you to continually delete anything about him ???

John Doe said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Paul Williams said...

I'm afraid I decided to prune a few posts here. There was some borderline speculation about a certain person which I felt on balance should be removed because as Red Flag said: "nobody really knows what goes on in back rooms other than the people there"

Anonymous said...

perhaps AO could be mayor then?

Groundhog Day said...

Anon @ 23/2000.

All I can say is that I remember that election well and the Windbag failing miserably to unseat Thatcher - and thank God for that. I just loved the way he was so confident in Sheffield on the eve of the election only to have egg all over his chops the following day. And he and Glenys became true champagne socialists did they not? Just like Prescott and Dafydd Elis Thomas (albeit a Nationalist) they were always criticising the House of Lords but when the ermine was dangled in front of them they grabbed it with both hands. So Lord and Lady Bisto (to reflect their epic journey on the Euro Gravy Train) have sailed into the sunset just like the Blairs with their millions intact. Sod the Labour voters, we're alright Jack!