It appears that Council Leader Clive McGregor has managed to assemble his new Executive just in time for the planned new round of "Executive Question Time" meetings to be held across Anglesey, starting tomorrow night:
- Thursday, June 10 - County Council Chamber, Llangefni
- Monday, June 14 - Ysgol Uwchradd Bodedern
- Tuesday, June 15 - Beaumaris Leisure Centre
- Monday, June 21 - Ysgol Llanfairpwll
- Thursday, June 24 - Holyhead High School
- Tuesday, June 29 - Ysgol Syr Thomas Jones, Amlwch
- Wednesday, June 30 - Ysgol Goronwy Owen, Benllech
All seven Question Time sessions will be held between 7.00 - 9.00pm and to attend you are apparently supposed to book your place by calling 01248 752140 or emailing: Leader@anglesey.gov.uk
If any readers are planning to attend, do let me know so we can report on proceedings here. Perhaps commenters might like to suggest questions which the new Executive should be asked...
208 comments:
1 – 200 of 208 Newer› Newest»08:58 (on previous thread)
"As an informed insider, I believe the Executive is the best of the available crop. It is mature and experienced. There is considerable intelligence and governance talent there. They are mature enough to work in unison. They know they have a moral duty to do so, for the sake of Anglesey."
I must say you sound like CMcG or perhaps even DB - so, so transparent in your fawning language. Not at all convincing, I'm afraid.
Don't you get it, even now? It's the culture and the characters - they're all still there!
The same panto, but everyone gets a chance to play Cinderella, and then the Ugly sisters. Or perhaps you prefer "Snow White and 7 dwarves" as analogy. just musical chairs! still got same bad cast.
If WAG is reading, in the name of G*d, please take the initiative. Use your eyes and brains - you delude yourselves if you think this will change anything.
10.04 Thank you for that timid little outburst...You are so prejudiced and in denial of the green shoots of progess dear boy, regrettable really.
A subversive perhaps ?
Let the chosen do their difficult work, supervised by WAG, WLGAssoc, the Recovery Board....and US, the public. We shall all be watching.
Fear not !
As one of the issues to be considered a the meetings is planning can someone ask a question along the following lines:
"Is the merger of the planning services of Ynys Môn and Gwynedd to continue, and will the new executive give their assurance that the new joint planning service will be adequately funded and staffed"
or (along the same lines)
"Given that one problem for inward investment is lack of clarity, can the new executive give us assurances that a top priority will be the new local plan, and that adequate funding for staff is provided within the planning department."
DERWYDD
Is it good to alert to what questions will be asked...I wonder ?
Yes (should we alert them of the questions), because we want a constructive dialogue, based on ideas and solutions, to improve Council services for the benefit of us all.
10.04
"A subversive perhaps ?"
In that short phrase you reveal all. Such a mindset is a danger to Anglesey.
I thought the Soviet Union ended in 1991. Seems the politburo mentality lives on....
Watchful eye (0858) is onto something here.
"Subversive"...a person or organisation seeking to subvert a government...a revolutionary ?
"Subvert"... upset overturn, overthrow etc ...?
Oxford English Ref. Dictionary.
Read it old boy .
Stats man - yes, it would be an interesting question to see how the merger of planning services between Ynys Mon and Gwynedd will effect the LDP for Ynys Mon. Or will there now be a joint Ynys Mon/Gwynedd LDP?
DRUID, my understanding is that JC is inclined towards it ?
We shall see.
In principle, I can`t see much ideological objection to it.
Is there any truth in the rumour that Plaid have an important meeting on Friday night but that several of their councillors are refusing to turn up?
A question I would also like to ask is the following:
"In the long term what process will the Council use when appointing a new Chief Executive (MD), would they support they idea of a distinguished panel of people from business and the community recommending the best candidate to them." Maybe David Bowles should have an input also ?
11:23
YES
"Is it good to alert to what questions will be asked...I wonder ?"
No. When these 'roadshows' started, they had to have the questions beforehand. How pathetic! They are the people who present themselves as knowing what they're doing in local politics, so let's see them think on their feet (or sitting behind their bulletproof screens).
Um Anon 11:59, I think Cllr McGregor should be welcomed for willing to go out and seek the opinion of the public.
This should be about encouraging a constructive debate, not finger pointing or a pointless argument about anything and nothing.
Today is about co-operation for the benefit of all, feel free to contribute some constructive suggestions.
12.23 Yes absolutely.
Lets be constructive, positive and incisive as to the FUTURE of Anglesey....there are lots of serious issues here....see the Druid`s Manifesto.
We don`t want public meetings to degenerate to criticising personalities or throwing insults at anyone, please ?
We are I hope above that.
BoF
stats man:1223
"Today is about co-operation for the benefit of all, feel free to contribute some constructive suggestions."
why put more old bandages on the sores when what the patient (Anglesey) needs is a new medical team with the right skills, new techniques and solutions. Treat the disease not the symptoms.
and the right code of ethics and integrity too!
clear the board. start afresh. end of.
12.48 Have you read the dictionary meaning of "subversive" yet, old boy ?
You really fit the meaning !
The question I wish to ask, (or at least have someone ask on my behalf), is "What practical actions will the executive carry out to ensure that people with disabilities have the means to engage in public debate and by what means will they provide evidence that we have been listened to and our contributions included in both deliberations and outcomes" - (Ref: Disability Equality legislation)
well, it's entertaining watching the ding-dong between anonymous (1253 and up thread) and the watching eyes.
one of them stings like a bee and the other is paranoid:))
lightens up my day anyway. thank you.
Yes it's good to know that even condesending pillocks are tolerated here.
13.30...you mean me..many thanks dear boy.
PS. it includes a "c" by the way ?
DERWYDD.
I humbly suggest that CMcG and the Executive (hoping they will ALL be present)are to be applauded for coming out to meet the public for Q&A in this very open and transparent way, at this crucial time. I am sure someone will wish to ask them about their views on the people`s Manifesto ?
Let us approach the consultation with dignity and intelligence.
@ 12:30; 12:53 & 13:30
Keep up the good work.
Bogbrush
To Housebound
A good and important question, I'm sure there are officers working towards 'barrier free communities' ,they need greater political support and adequate training for all staff.
I wonder how the council itself is meeting its obligations?
To 13.33
Touche - I shall retire gracefully from the fray, though somewhat chastened by your telling riposte.
To Druid,
Sorry it's me again, but in answer to the question you posed, can I be so bold as saying that a joint LDP would be a good idea (Ynys Môn and Gwynedd.
Also joint tourist strategies, can you see where I'm heading yet?
To Housebound.
A general answer.
IACC complies with all statutory disability and equality legislation, as a duty.
Its public buildings have easy level or ramped access to cater for all abilities/disabilities.
There is a lift in the HQ to upper floors, as well as disabled toilets.
As to new developments, these are subject to stringent planning and building regulations requirements, again to ensure good and inclusive access design to, within and from new buildings.
The days of ignorant access discrimination thankfully are over.
Hope it, although brief, helps.
BoF
15.00
Thank you, friend..No real offence intended !
15.01
As an informed insider (NOT a Councillor, or Staff !) I agree; there is nothing ideologically wrong in having a Gwynedd/Anglesey-wide LDP although it would take up considerable man-hour resources in preparing..and it would be a mighty document in size and weight.
This question will be occupying the minds of the planning professionals from hereon !
BoF
To BoF a good answer but sadly missing the main point of the question, rather than saying the Council complies, why not ask those with disabilities how the council could make things better for them.
A simple question 'how easy is it for a partially sighted person to travel to the main Council Offices ?'
My fav theme is, lets work together to make things better, oh and by the way go to Holyhead and check the tactile paving, you'll find a lot that are not right.
BoF:
Thanks for your reply - though it is a reply in the general, rather the particular that I raised.
I do wish that the grants department had taken the same care with monitoring the work on my home, then I wouldn't find myself in the midst of (unreported here) a civil court action to recover grants monies and make good damages to my house.
Sadly these "green shoots" may well succumb to present "disease" once they've grown a little.
The patient rather than disease should be at the centre of treatment.
Trust, like the soul, rarely returns once departed. This issue of distrust that is so widespread really needs to be put to rest before we can rely on moving forward constructively.
Despite the informative Druid and commenters I still have no real idea of what has been going on - what I know is that if you go into any shop or street on Anglesey and ask ordinary people what they think of our Council the response is head shaking and "don't get me started on that one"
Housebound
Blimey, that story sounds familiar! Many years ago, my grant-appointed contractor was so awful that I had to instruct him and the Council not to enter my land. This was the only way I could stop him damaging my house, as letter of complaint to the grants section achieved nothing. I subsequently discovered that the contractor had no previous experience, so quite how he got the contract for grants is, well, an Anglesey mystery.
Good luck in your case!
Reply to 16.24
The new Exec. should be trusted to be mature, intelligent and proactive towards the recovery of Anglesey, and its Council...its the best we`ve got.
It has the support of WAG, WLGA, Recovery Board...and tacitly, I`m sure, the majority of Anglesey, (if only the majority knew the facts, that is).
It has 2 years, till the local election, to make progress...meanwhile, we the public, will be watching and monitoring every decision they make.
Fear not...the ballot will decide !
To 15.31
I wish the Grants Department had monitored the work at my property too. Both TIG and HRG schemes turned out a nightmare. I discovered that Building Regulations had not been involved in the schemes.
Apparently its not their responsibility to be satisfied with the quality of the work or to make sure Building Regs are involved before approving payments.
Both WAG and IOACC report the same. Heres a bit of the WAG Final Report.
WAG Report 3rd stage
QUOTE "There are no checks to confirm that the work is carried out to a suitable standard. The lack of these checks raises the risk that government money is used for poor quality as has materialised in this case."
Findings & Management Response :-
1.3 REVIEW OF LOCAL AUTHORITY WORK
QUOTE "There is no process in place within the Assembly Government to confirm that the Local Authorities are discharging their obligations under the agreement between the two parties."
"There is a risk that the local Authorities may not be doing all that the Assembly Government expects of them meaning public funds are spent on sub-standard projects."
SIGNIFICANT
A process should be introduced to verify the work done by local authorities.
REJECTED
QUOTE " The performance of individual LA`s is subject to continuous review etc
1.5 QUALITY OF WORK
QUOTE " There is no requirement under the TIG scheme for the quality of work done by the applicants to be checked by independent third parties. The only requirement is to ensure the money is spent on the items applied and approved for."
"Assembly Government funds may be spent on poor quality work."
SIGNIFICANT
TIG procedures should be expanded to ensure that the quality of the work done is independently checked as well as the work done is what was applied and approved for"
REJECTED
QUOTE "The inspections carried out by the LA ensure that any works are carried out in strict accordance with the plans and specifications upon which any TIG award is made etc, etc
They had to revalue the work carried out at my property because I discovered so many omissions.
As long as the WAG Management reject recommendations made by their own Senior Officers, Grant applicants like us will suffer.
To Anon 16:24 Have you forgotten my fav theme 'Together we can make things better'.
To remind you also, the theme has been 'why rely on others when together united we can make things better'.
And - more women please less middle aged sad men.
As someone else has said upwards and forwards!!
16.37
Onwards and upwards is better ?
16.37
More women....yes, certainly !
You`ll find that many aspiring county councillors originate from parish or community councils, where they learn the craft of local "politics"...they may then decide or are encouraged to ascend the ladder towards the county.
By all means identify such promise in our local areas.
They also usually rather nicer to look at ?
To Anon 16:42
Yes, thank you for correcting me, much better!
To Anon 16:48
I was thinking more of Megan Lloyd George, the MP for Ynys Môn between 1929 and 1951. A true and dedicated person, who should be a benchmark for us all.
17.00
Crikey, is she still with us ?
re women and WAG
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/10267366.stm
Not that i (a woman) had heard of this organisation before ...
Rather an archaic and phallocentric argument (I suspect/hope tongue in cheek)from Anon 16.48
Ah I wish she was, but I'm sure there are others who with some encouragement could be just as good as she was.
Councillini - Snap!!
No previous, no insurance, no qualifications, no help from IOACC.
16-34 - How did you manage that from WAG? - I've written to the minister, my AM, my MP, the Ombudsman, and the National Auditor and could't get any clarity, help or resolution from any of them - thus my court action.
17.18
Who was it who said that the female (politician ?) is deadlier than the male ?
QUESTION TO EXECUTIVES - If Councillor Durkin does sue and happens to win in court, as this could be a staggering figure would us tax payers foot the bill or the Councillors being sued ?
16.33 I love tasty cheese.
The best has matured with age till it stinks.
We are all familiar with the stink so now lets wait till the new set up matures and hope fully it will be really great.
On the other hand, fully rotted manure is odourless.
And good for growth ...
on the other hand where there's muck there's brass which is why it's always the planning departments in local councils that breed corruption
To Housebound,
With unbelievable difficulty, been to the top and back and like you am still fighting.
Good luck with your case
To 18.30
Maybe worth sharing information?
To Housebound
E.Mail me at gwynfor2@aol.com
17:38.
The Answer is both and don't be deceived, it could, with costs, run into millions.
Further to that there is the criminal element to consider.
18.56 BD again, good evening Sir !
Thanks for that.
To 18:56
Oh please do shut up and go away, sad pathetic individual that you are, whoever you are, I really do not care anymore!!!!
Publicly & robustly condemn Councillor S & D!
Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.
This Act provides means whereby intentional harassment, Alarm or distress is a criminal offence.
Public order Act1986.
Section 4A, inserted by the next mentioned Act, creates the offence of intentional harassment, alarm or distress.
Section5 creates the offence of harassment, alarm or distress.
Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
This Act, was primarily created to provid protection against stalkers, but it has been used in other ways.
Under this Act, it is now an offence for a person to pursue a course of action which amounts to harassment. Under this act the definition of harassment is behaviour which causes alarm or distress.
This Act provides for a jail sentence of up to Six months or a fine .There are also a variety of civil remedies that can be used including awards of damages and restraining orders backed by the power of arrest.
20;00
stats man
Lost the plot I see, can't stand the strain? Never mind it was bound to happen when you try and mix it with the big boys. Come back when your 10 years older, we'll see what your made of then?
20.16
Anonymous bullying, insulting and intimidation is not polite sport, old boy.
Every word you utter diminishes you in the eyes of this blog.
Subversive again ?
Anon 20:16 Mix with the big boys - good grown up reply there.
Typical bully tactics, typical bully.
Thank you for confirming my suspicions, I take note and move on, see you in 2020 or is that twenty twenty
20:29.
Does that go for 20:00 as well or like IOACC, there's one rule for them and another for every one else
Whilst you lot are bickering has anyone noticed those gas chambers being constructed on the old Shell site?
Funny you should ask that, I'm sure I heard jack boots last night in Holyhead town centre.
Sorry I do apologies for my uncalled for outburst, it wasn't clever or grown up. It was done in a moment of weakness. I should know better, I have taken myself to the corner and given myself a good talking to.
No 20:53.
That's only C. E. and his biffo boys coming home from the Lodge.
18: 56 says
stats man.
That's ok. We all have our moments of weakness.
Your doing just fine. keep it up.
To 21:03 Thank you, I promise only to be positive from now on, no more negative thoughts, no more bickering... Onwards and upwards...
On that Stats.
Regarding the questions one might ask Clive McGregor at his executive meeting with the public is.
Can he confirm whether his new Portfolio Holder for planning has an Ombudsman's complaint against him under investigation appertaining to planning matters?
Add to 22:34.
And is this why The get out of Jail card is part of the "Terms of Engagement"?
Not the best way to start off with a new EXEC. Is it Clive
Me smells a f up already.
22.34 We had never heard the word 'appertaining' used a council till you came along.
Perhaps you should have been an English teacher
Never heard the word "Appertaining" before!!! Some education or the lack of it you've had then.
Or is it you spent most of you early years locked away with you being a danger to the public? eh boy.
22:34 You wouldn't be talking about a member of the Planning Committee discussing the Biomas Plant Application with someone before taking part in the decision making process, without declaring an interest, would you?
Absolutely not dear boy. Of course the 23.01 idiot got it wrong again! I said I had not heard the word used at council until a certain person came along. I was always told to read it twice before commenting. A bit like "engage the brain before engaging the mouth".
Anyway, a little bird tells me that a particular person IS thought to be a danger to an element of the public so be warned and keep the doors locked.
On the subject of Biomas, I thought that was a scary TV programme in black and white days.
Yeh I remember that one Biomas and the Pit
Even better Biodigester rhymes with Sylvester and no more nasty schoolboy tales about his fantasies
00:36
If you had read it twice IDIOT, You would have noticed that the word AT has the letter T in it.
Now go write on the Board 100 times in front of the whole class. The Word AT has the letter T in it and make sure you engage brain before doing so.eh Boy.
Pack it in you two.
Chaps....the word in the above context is "pertaining"....do please use proper English !
Cymro.
How can there be a climate of High Trust when the Terms of Engagement make coercive declarations regarding specified individuals?
This is badly thought out and suggests desperation, but it goes against the rule of law, which states general rules apply to all.
This will take what was already a Low Trust institution into deeper, uncharted depths.
8.37
A desperate situation calls for robust, even desperate, measures...but it is perfectly LEGAL, old boy.
If you seek to argue otherwise, cite the relevant legal authority ?
No waffle.
07:45
I AGREE TOO
TO THE EXECUTIVE
Since it is perfectly proper and fair to put questions in advance -
Q. What academic and/or professional qualifications and expertise do the following have to manage complex portfolios at taxpayers expense -
(Names will be identified on the night ! )
Forewarned !
Yes, a very pertinent question, but one which will be evaded.
McGregor has also said on TV the other night that they are making the necessary changes as they see fit, because they have been elected by the public. True, but it's a bit late in the day to try and claim that this representation has been anything other than meaningless for the past 16 years. Either that, or the Auditor General was wrong in his report last year.
To Anon 9:44 A good and reasonable question, except do Councillor manage or do they employ others with
academic and/or professional qualifications to manage for them?
A debate about the role of a Councillors would be an interesting one. There seems to be some confusion about this (even among councillors) i.e are so called full time councillors required ?
Great Councillini 10.01
Evading such a question will be seen for what it is.........!
With some exceptions, there is a vacuum of expertise and incisive knowledge of complex portfolios, which is worrying e.g. FINANCE,
CORPORATE GOVERNANCE, EDUCATION.
Worrying !
Are "rulers" realistically meant to be experts ?
There is a long and ancient history of philosophical debate about this.
By democratic means we can exercise some means of control over who rules us, and their behaviour....this is the best we can hope for, I expect.
Why, therefore, are we paying substantial allowances to members of the Exec. when they have little or no expertise in their particular poortfolio ?
A pertinent question ?
Maybe the local councillors shouldn't be allowed to stand for the executive, maybe these roles should be fixed term and voted for separately.
That way you could examine the credentials of the individual.
One question I'd like to have properly debated is:
"is a Council the best way to represent the people and deliver services in an efficient, innovative and flexible way?"
Looking around me, I'd have to conclude that it may not be. But that doesn't mean the Council can walk away from what they've done in the past. Oh no! They'll have to be imaginative in how to hand over things they want off their books.
As for representation, well, this blog is doing an infinitely better job of giving the people a real, clear voice than any councillor ever did. What we need now is someone who'll start listening.
10.23
I have no issue with councillors being appointed to plum and remunerative portfolios on the Executive....provided they are qualified academically, professionally, or otherwise (e.g. long experience in that field)to manage and direct that Department properly, and not be stooges.
A senior Officer (who himself became a noted Councillor some years later !) said once, of portfolio holders - "They are like mushrooms...keep them in the dark..and feed them bullsh.t"
Reality !
Great Councillini 10.26
You are a philosopher !
Democracy is the best system of government wev`e got, except its not perfect.
The alternative are infinately worse.
The Majority rules : the tyranny of the majority...against the interests of the minorities etc.
Yes, imperfect.
Local Councils are the best and most direct system of representational local governance.
We can`t ealistically expect direct participatory democracy...ie all of us making all decisions together...impossible...it would take up too many evenings !
All we can hope for is to elect future Councillors who are better educated !
Lets continue this illuminating debate.....??
BoF
Why can't we make say 10 big decisions, and leave the small stuff to the councillors?
At the moment we have one decision (vote) for a position your candidate may not win, and that's it, democracy has been satisfied.
No-one expects every issue to be debated. Have you seen 'The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer'?
But surely we could handle 5 or 10 issues by public debate and vote?
I suppose the criticism is always that a popular one person, one vote system leads to, well, populist decisions that may not always be the best outcome.
The flipside of that argument is that, by using an elected representative, we assume that this person will have some ability and insight above and beyond the rest of us. In the days of elitist education systems, that may have been true. Today, well, our people are a lot more educated and sophisticated than that.
The question might be: "has the elected councillor system lasted this long merely because it's been a part of the establishment, and is it remotely relevant today?"
More ideas welcome...
GC 10.53
Its evolved and become subconciously almost, part of the established political order, yes.
Is it because we have not identified any better system of local government, yes.
Rule by salaried technocrats is to be avoided, yes.
I believe the Councillor system can continue and survive, provided,as I have suggested, those elected in the future are better educated.
11:04
Well, if philosophising means thinking about how things are, and how things might be, then mea culpa!
Education. There's no escaping that this is really a prerequisite for any serious councillor. A matter of debate quite what form that education should have taken, but in general, academic education is a good starting point.
Sadly, too many of our representatives are very limited in their worldviews, lack any experience of different cultures, and part of the reason for his is a lack of education.
Mind you, I'd be the first to accept that the term 'education' has not necessarily to equate to 'schooling' or 'university', but equally to demonstrated life skills, experience and achievement. Integrity is the key word. It is possible to have that without formal education.
If you restrict councillors to the educated, shouldn't you do the same with voters?
Or perhaps they are the 40% (or whatever) who do vote already?
Democracy wasn't originally an all-inclusive concept.
Integrity ? Yes, of course.
But the village idiot might have integrity....but I would not want him to govern me ?
I think its simply a case of encouraging reasonably educated people, with some reputation or evidence of integrity,and intelligence,to stand, and to vote for them as opposed to "others".
We have all witnessed the consequences of electing the unintelligent !
Great Councilline:
"Integrity is the key word. It is possible to have that without formal education."
indeed, and is a key part of the character. And it is a lacking in right character among the IOACC cadres that causes all these problems.
I agree with the point about a lack of a rounded world view. Too many are preoccupied with parochial interests, and I don't just mean of the island, rather on an even smaller scale than that.
What is needed for high quality executive councillors are individuals who have the intellectual confidence to stand up to the officers and take a different viewpoint.
Same in national government. The good ministers are those who have the confidence to put forward their own vision, rather than follow the civil servant.
11.38 I agree.
From my vantage point, I have seen certain previous Execs. on IACC just merrily going along with and accepting what the "expert" Chief Officers tell them....what do they personally bring to the table, by way of leadership and command, to drive change, for the large allowance they get ?
Planning is a case in point....the long-awaited LDP has been languishing in a drawer since the previous principal officer left about 2 years ago....what have previous portfolio holders done to expedite that....NOTHING that you would notice.
Another question which has also touches on the role of Councillors - Do we except the council to do to much ?, and is it really the best means of delivering certain services or functions.
In example consider the Council's property and small holding portfolio, would it not be better and more transparent if this was left to a private management company, with the Councillor role being to scrutinies whether it has meet the targets its has set?
11:38.
I agree entirely, and with the previous post.
But look what happened to Clare Short. Not perfect, but she was hardly welcomed for standing up to Blair!
11.45 Yes, good example.
The management of the property and smallholdings estate has hitherto been inefficient, ineffectual and totally uneconomic.
The estate should be reviwed, and rent reviews instigated....where else would you get to occupy valuable property/farms at low rent, with no rent reviews ??
Get real, get commercial, boys !
There is no room for sentiment !
one thing everyone has forgotten in all this.
this new executive will fall unless local Plaid and/or Labour party members endorse the decision of their councillors to join the executive.
of course, it might be possible for them to get round it by sticking 2 fingers up to their parties and become "independents". After all, Chorlton and his chums have previous on this.
I recall many years ago Labour in Wrexham asked all their Councillors to sit an exam. Those who failed to pass where not selected to stand as candidates for Labour. However all that happened was those Councillors not selected stood as independents and many were re-elected.
Or in other words and to paraphrase the famous saying - if you believe in democracy you also have to accept that sometimes the public will make the wrong choice.
Regarding the debate about whether portfolio holders should have expert knowledge in the field they represent: I would say not necessarily - but only under the proviso that they have been elected and have a mandate to implement a specific vision/set of policies for the Island. In such a case they act as tribunes for the will of the electorate and set the goals and broad policy aims for the council officers to achieve. However, as we all know, our councillors are not elected under any particular manifesto and therefore have no real mandate from the people to implement any particular set of policies. In this case (an admittedly awful case) it is probably better for them to have a good understanding and knowledge of their portfolio.
Regarding encouraging more women to read this blog: to be honest I'm not really sure how that could be achieved.
the comments above about the parties making their candidates sit an exam is relevant. Unfortunately, as the Drudi says, if the councillor hopeful fails the grade, they just become an independent.
So maybe the way forward is to introduce a rule which states that only parties can be represented, not independents.
An independent party could be formed but it would have to have a manifesto.
All parties (including Tory, Plaid, Labour) should be required to get nominations from at least 1% of the eligble electorate in a local authority area if they want to be eligible to put candidates forward.
It can be argued the threshold could be higher than 1% but the principle is a sound one.
To those advocating private sector involvment in the Property portfolio I would relate to you the example of a carehome manager (known to me) of a local association home in private hands who was dismissed for 'caring more about the patients than the companies shareholders'
I'm sure you can all extend that mode of thinking into similar consequences for the property portfolio.
Maynard Keynes pointed out that the private sector does not run thing more efficiently than the public sector when Marco-economic measures are taken into account.
I for one don't value Victorian social values.
Prometheus - that's an interesting Keynes quote. Do you have a link I could see?
"Get real, get commercial, boys !
There is no room for sentiment !"
OK, I accept the need for realistic rents (if indeed they are unrealistic or unreviewed, which I doubt). But here we reach the junction between the commercial world, which sees everything as merely profiting by the few, and more socialist ideas, which might want to see the majority get a fair crack at life.
I suspect that, as things get harder, the move will be less towards the free market ideology, and more towards things like not-for-profit providers of services, community self-help groups, credit unions and so on. There was nothing ever wrong with these things; indeed, they are very sensible, worthwhile ideas. It's just that the few couldn't profit from them, so they became unfashionable.
"Maynard Keynes pointed out that the private sector does not run thing more efficiently than the public sector when Marco-economic measures are taken into account."
I have to agree with him. How logically could the private sector, which needs to turn-in a profit, provide services more efficiently than the private sector - IF all other things, especially the quality and execution of management functions - is the same. Sadly, with a guaranteed monthly salary, the public sector has consistently failed to provide adequate management in most cases.
Oops! First should be private, second 'public'.
Time to rest and get ready for tonight's cosy Qs and As around the Council fireplace.
Great Councilloribus:
agree about the need for more self-help groups and third sector involvement.
There is no reason why for example the council could offload its leisure centres and some care homes to community owned organisations run along co-operative/mutual lines.
then the council would be less a provider and more of a commissioner/facilitator.
Hi Druid - Not strictly a quote. However a quick check on Wikipedia using the search term 'Keynsian Economics' will explain his basic theory, as fully articulated in his book 'The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money' 1936.
BTW thanks to Anon 10.49 for the mention of 'The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer'. I'd never heard of it before, however a quick wiki reveals all - now for a search of E-bay to see if I can find an old copy.
1230; Prometheus
Still stuck on your isolated rock?
I don't think Keynes is what IOACC needs right now. More like Hayek's "Constitution of Liberty".
From Coup D'Etat IOACC (Saturday, 5th June post)
"4. Agree that a major objective.... This will include publicly identifying those individuals. Any member of the Groups within the Alliance who does not publicly support this stance, and refuses to "sign up" to the principle described in the paragraph above, or whom their Group Leader considers has failed to demonstrate sufficient ongoing commitment to the recovery, shall be ejected from their Group."
Since when have DB and CMcG had the right to decide who can and cannot take the Plaid Cymru and Labour whip? Are they now running these parties or what?
Welcome to the blog Gnodar.
I have to assume the rock you refer to is the one my namesake was chained to.
Are you an Eagle?
I must say that I was a bit disappointed that my list of 10 councillors and two officers to get rid of was not included in comment. Suffice to say the only way forward in my opinion would be get rid of 10 councillors and some senior staff, organise a "Truth and Reconciliation" inquiry to look at the past and start again.
PS The Plaid group are in turmoil because half of them would rather work with the Original Indy's than their own leader.
15.15
It is also now emerging that Anglesey Labour is unhappy with the idea of joining this new executive. apparently, they would rather have their liver picked out by an eagle (to use the Prometheus analogy)than be a part of this power. seems JC didn't consult beforehand and has lots of explaining to do!
oh dear!
15:34. The McGregor Plan does seem doomed to failure, one way or another, sooner or later. I'm sure he's tried his best so far as he sees things, but by now, 16 years of failed local government later, it's way, way too late to get leopards to change their superglued spots.
All the wrongdoers are in one bag. Get them all out now and give the honest lot a chanmce. I`d rather see the other lot in power knowing they have`nt anything to hide than those who signed the Term of Agreement..
I think a lot of people would be happier.
Anyway the WAG should have taken over a long time ago and appointed a small team of investigators to crush the culprits once and for all like "Donnygate"
Im sorry but this Councils past will continue to dampen any recovery until all those who have broken the law have been dealt with.
The role of the Council needs to redefined as well as the services it provides. Of course we will still need protection, assistance and encouragement to those of most need in the community, but where is it written that the best organisation to do this is the Council.
Of course not all private companies are good, but neither do all private companies have shareholders, and some especially small and medium firm do make a significant contribution to the local community.
What pessimism !
What negativity ?
Narrow Anglesey mentality all over.
I have developed the mindset to be optimistic about everything and to look for the best in every individual and situation....it has stood me in good stead.
Politics (even in Anglesey) is the art of the possible, old boy.
Never give up hope !
To all.
The new Alliance, because of It's Illegal "Terms Of Engagement" is all but finished & The members who signed up to it are now in serious trouble. Watch this space.
To Druid,
Not the right thread, but I'd like a debate about contracts,I'm not a economist, or an auditor or businessman so the questions I would to like to ask others are:
What are the barriers to local firms winning contracts from local authorities.
What are they views on the idea that bundled contracts (sorry if that's not the term)deliver better value for money
and
What are the European rules about contracts i.e when do they have to advertised across Europe.
One for later perhaps?
DRUID AND ALL
The "Terms of Engagement" of the new Alliance have now being made officially Public by the Council on their own Web sit World Wide naming all the Group leaders who have signed.
I think we will now see the end of McGregor and Bowles very quickly.
Police need to be investigate as serious criminal offences have been committed.
"Narrow Anglesey mentality all over."
We'll start being positive on day one AFTER the current lot have been put to rest. No before. 16 years of waiting for a functioning council - it's not pessimism, it's realism!
Are you a IoACC PR person, I wonder?
Anon to Anon 17:48 Crickey, that's serious, better not discuss it then if there's going to be a court case, not wanting to prejudice it and so on.
Mum's the word, let the police take any action they deem necessary.
McGregor, Bowles & Ball, in deep shit.
If police don't try their usual cover up, all could find themselves in court.
See Anglesey County Council Website for full account and "Terms of Engagement" Just asking to be sent to Jail.
There going to need a lot of money.
1721:
Re: "To all.
The new Alliance, because of It's Illegal "Terms Of Engagement" is all but finished & The members who signed up to it are now in serious trouble. Watch this space."
There is a growing consensus among the more considered views here and elsewhere that what you say is indeed true about the Terms of Engagement. In which case the Group leaders are at risk of pulling their parties into an arrangement which contravenes the basic principles of the rule of law.
Someone has already said that Anglesey Labour wants nothing to do with this deal eagerly signed up to by Cllr Chorlton. Also that Plaid Cymru are not at all happy about the actions of its Group Leader, that farmer from Bryngwran.
At least the membership of those two parties who are not councillors have the brains, ethics and decency to see what's wrong with this hurriedly put-together dog's breakfast.
I wonder how many will turn up tonight, not doubt we shall get a informative blog from the Druid giving details. From what I've been told of previous question and answer sessions, Clive McGregor came across quite well, but not much was learnt.
Is that Palermo as in the capital of Sicily, likewise an island and home to a well known 'business' organisation.
When Plaid Cymru Head office finds out what a difficult situation Bob Parry has put them in, they'll go ape.
Don't they have a good football team, with um Delio Rossi as manager?
Jones'y boy, has already shit himself. He's just watched his chances of re-election go down the drain.
Plaid Member:
Didn't Ieuan Wyn Jones mention anything to them? Does he know what's happening in Llangefni?
Get your knitting out boys & girls there building the scaffold in Llangefni already.
Nothing like a good, off with their heads for an afternoon out.
To Dyn o'r Mynachdy
Before entering public service in 1987, Ieuan Wyn Jones was a practising solicitor - so if they did ask him, he could have given them his legal opinion.
Not yet surely. that's to easy. A couple of years on death row first, give them plenty of time of think about what they've done first.
We Councillors have all received a letter from Lynn Ball today telling us, all is Legal!!!
Well that's it then. No problem???
Stats man:
Your question about contracts and other comments about mutuals have given me food for thought.
Some posts have wandered close to asking fundamental questions about what sort of civic organisation would best serve us, and whether what we tacitly accept as the norm is working for us.
I would welcome such a debate on such issues. For instance; How feasible would it be to transfer the running and provision of leisure centres to a mutual/not for profit organisation?
I'm going to ponder on this some more....
As you said maybe another thread for Druid to initiate.
Not fair, why in Llangefni again, they get all the fun, typical.
At a packed meeting of Staff today David Bowles names 3 more councillors as constantly blocking progress and refusing to embrace new ways of working and must be publicly condemned.
These are. Phil Fowlie, Aled Morris Jones and O Glyn Jones??
Prometheuswrites:
Thank you, if I recall Wem swimming pool (Shropshire) was transferred from the then North Shropshire District Council to I think a community lead group. Sadly I think it shut even then, but maybe lesson where learnt? The local rag the Shropshire Star may give leads
stats man.
Many loss making facilities, community centres etc have survived by being handed over to community organisations, they where Councils can draw down grant assistance. That's why many Council's have handed over their Housing Stock to Housing Associations.
She couldn't even abide with her own planning conditions, let alone advise councillors whether they are breaking the law or not.
Lynn Ball should remember that the Human Rights Act applies to the people of Anglesey.
John Chorlton..you are the Executive portfolio holder for Planning.. will you look after the Human Rights Act when the Council destroys the Property of Anglesey people.. or will you turn a blind eye? just like Lynn Ball did??
Mc Gregor doesn't give a shit about the Human Rights Act because he is an old copper.. and trust me, they ignore it.
The reaper cometh.
To Anon 19:52 A good point, I have said it before but I think Community Council's should have a greater role, maybe not running facilities as such, but being facilitators.(sorry not the best Queen's English)
For a national example there is Welsh Water which is a not for profit company.
20:57
He'll give a shit when the fags in Walton find out that he's an ex copper.
After what McGregor and Bowles, along with all those that signed the "Terms" will be receiving next week. They'll be wishing they'd never seen the IOACC
Fancy The Council putting the whole thing on the World Wide Web. Its going to cost the tax payers of Anglesey, Well how deep is our pockets.
McGregor, Bowles and Lynn Ball you have F..ked us good and proper this time.
Then on top of that we will be ridiculed world wide.
I note on June 15 the Q&A session is a Beaumaris Leisure Centre, what is the latest about the centre there was talk of closure ?
Is this an example where the Town Council could run such a facility?
From IOACC leaders page:
"The Welsh Local Government Association has also supported negotiations to form the new alliance".
The pdf on the link is a document copy, signed and dated 8 June 2010
Mr Mcgregor's signature is the most aesthetically pleasing.
Hopefully the Council will publish on the web a summary of the questions asked, and answers given. Of course this could only the general questions.
Then those who could not make it on the 'nite could have a flavour of what was discussed.
To Puck
I agree, I like Bob Parry's signature also, very tidy.
"At a packed meeting of Staff today David Bowles names 3 more councillors as constantly blocking progress and refusing to embrace new ways of working and must be publicly condemned.
These are. Phil Fowlie, Aled Morris Jones and O Glyn Jones??
I bet a lot of the people at the packed meeting know Mr Fowlie, A M Jones and O Glyn Jones on a personal level and it must hurt some of them to hear a complete stranger who does not even know them properly publicly condemning them. And for what ? not signing the Terms of Agreement.
I wish Bowles would get it into his head that we the public dont want this coalition in power because the majority of them have something to hide.
Those that did not sign have a better chance of making recovery work.
22.01:
it says Cllr. Bob Parry on behalf of Plaid Cymru. signed 8/6/2010.
So that's it. A stroke of a pen and he's committed Plaid to this arbitrary, coercive document.
Not only that 22:17. He's committed Plaid Cymru to legal problems that could rock the party Throughout Wales.
22:27. Tell us please
22:09, How do you think those Councillors and their families are coping with such nasty rubbish.
I hope Bowles and his Witch Finder General buddy rot in hell.
Sorry to point it out Druid, but Wiesenthal (20:11) has broken Godwin's Law.
Time for a new thread when you get back from the meeting.
22.37:
I don't know his name but he was quite tall, with a prominent nose, eyebrows and with very little hair. He was also very dismissive of, and argumentative with, ordinary people who disagreed with his statement. His colleague was a fiery chap, shorter with rather piercing, demonic eyes, and much more hair; and he would try to convince us that blue was green etc.
it would be funny really if it was a play, but sadly it was a serious matter.
Make no reference, verbally or in writing, in public or in private, to any issues relating to past conduct, allegations or grievances in relation to other Alliance members.
Are these people mad? Doesn't ex copper McGregor know that withholding information of a criminal nature, is in itself a criminal act.
Thanks Brownos Envelops.
Got Ya.
I Have just woken up.
Reading through the last few hours blogs makes me really happy.
It is obvious they are at a meeting because, if you had not noticed there has not been one word of nastiness, just good positive debate. Brilliant
Anglesey Islander
I'm sorry to have to do it but I've deleted a couple of comments for transgressing Godwin's Law. And one other for making claims about identifiable people however obliquely.
Welcome hone Druid.
What's hot on the presses?
I feel like inviti ng all elected councillors into my home to have a good Q & A session, perhaps that way a better impresion could be gained.
Would I be safe?
Young mother
Anon 23:18 I've just got home from a dinner with Mrs Druid. Did anyone attend the meeting in Llangefni?
Anon 23:18 I've just got home from a dinner with Mrs Druid. Did anyone attend the meeting in Llangefni?
22.46:
It is inappropriate to invoke Godwin's Law in the anodyne attempt to close down what is a legitimate philosophical distinction, namely that what may be legal may not be ethical.
As an example I refered to a regime with which we are all familiar that followed its law and so defended its actions on that basis.
And referring to the point made by A councillor (20.12; I think), what one council employee declares to be legal is simply that person's opinion. It does not mean such action is ethically sustainable.
actually come to think of it, the tall councillor who was supporting the Trearddur Bay developer may have been wearing a wig. though he didn't have a false moustache;)
also perhaps I was mistaken when I said he had a high pitched voice when he got agitated (can happen to us all :) )
Wiesenthal - your point is better made this time without recourse to mentioning National Socialism.
On Yahoo Answers (USA)and Campfire Friday they try to anwer what do Druids eat?
Silly the should have asked what Mrs Druid cooks for the Druid.
So what do Druids eat?
To Gnodar AKA Asmund Berserks-Slayer:
True enough, I don't think IOACC has the financial wherewithall to pursue a Keynsian approach.
Regarding Hayek's 'The Constitution of Liberty': The story is that Mararet Thatcher interupted a presentation at a British Conservative Party meeting and declared "This is what we believe".
Personally I don't think she had read the book through as the postscript by Hakek is titled 'Why I am not a conservative' :-)
Democracy is the least of all evils but it does provide us with the government we deserve.
i think i am starting to get the gist of this forum
I assume those who call Mr Bowles a witch hunter are from or related to the "old school" who in their over simplistic stance do not see any wrong with the lining of their own pockets and the protection of their local consortiums and hence all
those who have signed up to the illegal terms of engagement will be sacked
looks like MR B has achieved another coup - give them enough rope and they will hang themselves
i can understand this as i am sure this sort of thing goes on in every area to some extent but at the same time other areas do not have such fixed boundaries and seem to be much more flexible regarding migration into and out of an area.
The island does have numerous issues but local attitudes seem to be reticent with moving forward with the times.
Whilst i can understand a certain amount of cosyness this gives the island i do find it hard to understand how what has effectively been blatant racial descrimination and criminal fraud and theft can be so easily brushed underneath a myriad of carpets.
What really puzzles me is the motives (apart from the obvious one of greed)
I forget who made the quite but it goes roughly along the lines of
control of food controls people
control of weapons controls country
control of money controls the world
or in this case Anglesey -
anyway apologies for a long rambling post but thanks again to Druid for providing a forum for concerned people like me to find out a bit more of what is going on and for those who seem determined to throw mud even on here - whilst i can see some humour is useful to alleviate the tedium and monotony the standard on here seems to be base, crude and petty to say the least
(did anyone see Mr Prescott on Have I got News for You - very entertaining even if it was a repeat)
yes Druid i am going to make an effort to attend one of the meeting and am happy to air questions for others should they be unable to put them forward themselves
@watchful eye - sorry i thought the word you used had an "A" in it not an "O"
Well, I turned up at Llangefni, half-expecting an angry mob, to find about 30 cars at 6:50pm (meeting started at 7pm). Five more cars turned up over the next five minutes, but about five left as the office cleaning staff finished for the night!
So, there were at least 10 cars belonging to the New Order executive, which leaves, erm, a mere handful of the public as attendees.
The last time the meetings had a poor turnout they called it a 'good turnout' and mentioned how incredibly cold it was. So, with a lovely warm summer's evening, they'll still call it a good turnout and say how very warm and sunny it was. It's the kind of logic we're all very used to here.
Personally? I left. They're not worthy of the extra legitimacy another person would add to their hopeless grouping. The people of Anglesey have clearly had enough and are treating the meetings with contempt.
I hear 15 members of the public turned up and were massively outnumbered by the Exec. and staff...and 1 press rep.
I hear CMcG performed very well on his feet and came over as sincere and committed.
The others who spoke, likewise.
This team deserves support to succeed.
But the apathy of the public by their absence was conspicuous, I hear.
BoF
"But the apathy of the public by their absence was conspicuous, I hear."
On the one hand, it's a pity that the people have lost interest. I don't think it would be wise of the Council to spin this into 'oh, people wanted to have a BBQ and not come to a meeting', or 'well, we're here, it's their fault for not turning up'.
It's apathy resulting from the years of rubbish governance. In the 1990's scandals that hit the Council (including criminal allegations), there were plenty of people who turned out, no matter what time of day it was. We even took leave from work to protest.
The Council should be very concerned indeed at this apathy, and what it is telling them about their long-standing failures. I do wish Cllr. McGregor well, but I suspect the task has been just too tall.
To tall indeed.
That tall, he's only got the support of other members to join his Alliance with unlawful threats. He and Bowles have knackered the council up altogether.
To Great Councillinii
Yes I recall the meetings of the 90's when certain council's where very badly run,and indeed a great number did turn out.
Of course if a large crowd means dissatisfaction, then conversely a small crowd may show contentment?
I have no real proof of this conjuncture (and I merely pose the question, and do not state it as fact), and you are right we should be concerned if there is an apathy towards democracy. As this means a minority (be they right or wrong) have free reign to purse there own agenda.
Hopefully we can encourage participation by having sensible debates around how can we make things better, in terms of policies and practices. I'm sure many like yourself will have good ideas how this can be done.
And let us not forget the good work the council is doing already, with I suspect no help from any politician, but thanks to hard working and dedicated staff members.
The members of the new Alliance are as followed:
John Chorlton. Eurfryn Davies. Lewis Davies. Keith Evens. Clifford Everett. Fffur Hughes. Robert Ll Hughes. Trefor Lloyd Hughes. William Hughes. Dylan Jones, Hywel Eifon Jones. Ramond Jones. Thomas Jones. Clive McGregor. Rhian Medi. Bob Parry. J. Arwel Roberts Hefin Wyn Thomas John Penri Williams. Selwyn Williams.
In signing up and or supporting the Alliances "Terms of Engagement" as written, all the above have shown themselves to be traitors to the Human Right Acts, to Law and to the People of Anglesey and will reap the World wind they have created.
Stats Man,
I agree with you, but I think it would be a very public relations thing to claim that lack of people means everyone's happy. I'd say it's a possibility, but unlikely.
Also right to express support to the majority of staff within the Council who are doing a fine job under very difficult circumstances indeed.
Re attendance numbers:
The only places I've seen the meeting mentioned is on the blog and on the council's own web site.
I don't watch TV so don't know if there has been coverage or mention. The local press don't seem to have much critical interest in IOACC, so I don't read the local anymore either.
I suspect the low number are from a combination of lack of awareness and disenfranchisement amongst those who know.
Promethueswrites:
You raise an important point in relation to the local press (if you can call papers that are owned by a multinational local). In this area there is a definite lack of competition and choice, and sadly have you noticed how thin the Daily Post is getting these days.
Blogs like 'The Druids Revenge' is one important alternative source of information. I wonder what other viable form is there to keep the public informed ?
Radio Cymru to their credit do give the island ample attention through the lunchtime debate show.
What is Clive McGregor going to do, now the two main back stabbers on his cobbled up Executive, Hefin Thomas and John Chorlton, have been reported to the Ombudsman again?
There can only be real debate on blogs like this, where the Council are utterly unable to do anything about what is written, so long as it is lawful. Everyone on Druid's blog accepts entirely the need to regard to the law in posting, and anyone who doesn't will have the posts deleted.
What this blog has achieved is to take away the ability of senior staff and elected members to target, blame and isolate those who 'dare' comment, criticise or merely suggest. This is by far and without question the most important development to true democracy on Anglesey in a very long time.
Thank you Barrie Durkin for mentioning the Human Rights Act, the first and only time a member of IOACC, has mentioned that WE the people of Anglesey are covered by the Human Rights Act, remember that this Council will soon be mentioned in the European Court of Human Rights.
Maybe, this may be a new focus for them, something for them to think about when THEY interfere with people's property!
14.01
Its an unavoidable fact of a liberal democracy that the State has the right (enacted by P`ment)to interfere in many ways (eg Planning) with its subject`s property...for the common good.
It can take your property compulsorily, if it wishes, for some public purpose, subject to compensation.
The crux is COMMON GOOD.
Look up Bentham in wikipedia ?
Wow, I've just found this blog, and Barrie Durkin sounds wonderful, does he have his own blog, so that I may learn more.
14.18 You are correct old boy...this is THE Durkin blog, look no further....welcome !
What a shame if he hasn't got one, a respected politician like him should have one, blog title for example could be 'For truth and justice for all'
"For Truth and Justice".
Anglesey County Council don't no the meaning of it.
If Clive McGregor's current lawless behaviour and failure to understand the difference between right and wrong is anything to go by. I hate to think how many innocent people he abused and put in jail when he was a copper.
I wonder what Cllr Durkin thoughts are on this, I for one would be interested to know.
His opinions when expressed directly should be respected.
I agree, there are plenty of people saying this and that on his behalf, and of what his going to do.
But I believe he is better than all of this, as a model citizen he knows what is wrong and right.
We should should wait for Cllr Durkin to educate us, on his wisdom and knowledge.
Cllr Durkin deserves to be treated with respect as he is the only true person who has the honour to stand up and defend the behaviour of this Council.
He is the only Councillor who defends the Human Rights of the people of Anglesey.
He is the only Councillor who listens to the people of Anglesey and gives them hope.
Councillor Durkin is the only Councillor that the people of Anglesey TRUST, and RESPECT.
Councillor Durkin, understands that when a member of the public contacts him, he knows that he is their only HOPE.
Councillor Durkin, understands that when a complainant tells him that this Council has interferred with someones Human Rights with regard to property, that the Complainant is talking out of his arse, and that the Complainant has got the evidence to back the case up.
Councillor Durkin is the only Councillor who understands the difference between a lie and a mistake, and that both are enough to destroy, and that the excuse of ignorance is not good enough.
Councillor Durkin is a model Councillor, being there for the people and NOT against the people.
To Anon 20:05
I respect Cllr Durkin
I just I'd like to hear from him directly sometimes, unless of course you are his spokes person.
Does all this comment about Truth & Reconcilliation mean all should be completely open, explain all their wrong doings and hide nothing so the public can then judge?
These lot can hide anything from anyone,they are immune, from any disciplinary actions for their past behaviour, they are protected by the Welsh Assembly, their behaviour and past " mistakes" have all been erased as a guarantee that they will all behave in the future, they have been told that if they all work together,and pull together then they will be strong enough to work as a joint team to fend off complaints of malfeasance and other deeds, and the public will go away.. that's what they hope will happen, let's see if Bowles and McGregor will be able to pull it off..
Post a Comment